New loader here, please help.

Hello all, I am new to rifle reloading and this forum. I am developing a plan and shopping list to load 6.5 creedmore. There is something I cant seem to understand regarding measuring the oal (bolt face to lands) and using that value to seat to a proper depth, say .020 off the lands for my load. I am hoping that writing out this plan I will answer my own question but if not, hopefully the loading geniuses on this forum can help me out.

Using lapua brass, expand neck with mandrel if necessary. I heard the dimension inside the neck is small and would lead to too much neck tension on new brass. No need to full length size as new brass will be in saami spec. Ream/chamfer case neck. Load two saami spec rounds and fire. This will provide me with a few case that match the dimensions of the chamber. For this step I will buy:

-wilson chamfer/deburring tool
-sinclair expander with mandrel
-ultimate seater die, forster
-digital scale and trickler
-sinclair comparator with insert
-sinclair bump guage insert to ensure saami spec
-have everything else from loading pistol.

Use the fired case to drill/tap and connect with a hornady oal guage. I have read to size the body only and bump back the shoulder of this case so it is identical to the case you plan to shoot out of the rifle. This is where I loose track. When you insert the modified case and oal guage into the chamber, the shoulder of the case will rest against the shoulder of the chamber (if you call it that). When a cartridge is loaded into the chamber under normal operation, if i understand correctly, the cartridge is held flat to the bolt face with the extractor and any size reduction would lead to a gap in the shoulder area of the chamber. Any size reduction of the fired case from bumping, or the use of the generic hornady modified case, would reduce the actual measurement of the chamber oal by that amount. When you seat the bullet in a case that has been sized/bumped, the distance from the ogive to the base of the case, or what will be the face of the bolt, regardless of where the shoulder is, wont be the correct distance off the lands. For the same reason you neck size only for a few firings, wouldnt it make sense to not size my oal measuring case? Do I not understand fundamentally the way a cartridge sits in a chamber on a bolt gun? If a case is smaller than the chamber from bumping is the gap not at the shoulder area instead of the bolt face? Forgive me if I sound like a moron. Im a newb. Dont even have a rifle yet. But I have my brass, powder and bullets Feel free to critique my shopping list or tell me what im missing. Thank you for any thoughts here.

.308 Norma said:

Howdy hyce! Welcome!
You certainly don't "sound like a moron" to me. To me, you "sound like" you might be overthinking things a bit as a new handloader.
What I mean is, I've been handloading bottle-necked (and sometimes belted) rifle cartridges since sometime in the '70s, and I don't have either one of the tools mentioned above. And unless you're going to be shooting your new 6.5C in bench rest competitions, I'll bet you won't need them either. While proper headspace is important, even critical, "proper headspace" just doesn't have to be all that exact, or precise for most shooters.

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Thank you for your input. Im beginning to agree with you about over thinking things. I guess I just figured that if I was going to buy all the gear and learn the process I might as well strive for a high level of precision. Really I just enjoy the process of loading and working with all the different tools. I might just take a step back, pick up a seater and bushing neck die and just load to saami spec for now. I only plan to shoot from one gun. And maybe if the brass gets too tight pick up a full length sizer.

otisrush said:

^^^^^^ .308 Norma raises a good question.....indirectly:

hyce: What are your objectives and intended use of the rifle / ammo you're assembling?

I've read your post a couple of times and have contemplated responding, but I'm a relatively new handloader and don't have enough expertise to answer your question precisely. But I will say that I load .243 Win for a bench rifle I have. My goal with that rifle is "accurate plinking" of steel out to 500 yards or so. With that as the context/goal, I will say that my use of the Hornady OAL gauge, the Hornady modified case, and Berger bullets along with good load development have produced loads that I'm more than happy with. (~1/3-1/2 MOA). BTW, I'm full-length sizing my brass, bumping the shoulder about .003".

So....if those kinds of results meet your needs, maybe going through the effort to build your own modified case may not be necessary.

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Honestly I havn't really thought about my objectives for this rifle. Connect with steel at the longest range possible I suppose. Out shooting my bro and his 270 WSM. Really I have just been consumed with developing the most cost effective plan to load high precision ammo just for the sake of loading good ammo. Good to know you have been successful with the hornady piece and I think im seeing that good load development is more important than getting hung up on a few thou in a case guage. Can I ask why you full length size every time if always using the same rifle. I understand for practical purposes hunting and whatnot, but I was under the impression for bench shooting neck sizing is good both because it is less wear on the brass and the case is a better fit in the chamber. Also what number to you use for neck tension? Thanks for the reply.

blue32 said:

Without a rifle this may be difficult to understand but I went about finding x distance off the lands a different way. I took a fired case and inserted the bullet into the case so that it measured well over magazine length. It should slide in with just a small amount of tension. I then hand fed it into the chamber and closed the bolt on the dummy cartridge slowly. This seats the bullet to where the ogive contacts the lands in your rifle. I then slowly extracted the cartridge, being careful not to allow the bullet to seat deeper or back out of the case. The next thing to do is measure to COAL, subtract .02", and now you have your seating depth which is .02" off the lands. This method works for bullets that are consistent in length. A soft point like Hornady 129 gr SP, with exposed lead, will necessitate multiple measurements and an average of those results.

I also neck size for bolt guns. Since the body retains the fire formed dimensions to the chamber it is essentially a perfect fit to my chamber. Some people use full length dies to touch the shoulder but I haven't found it necessary in my rifle.

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Thanks for the reply. This seems like a very simple method to measure chamber length. Wonder why everyone seems to bother with the tools. You didn't mention you did any sizing of the case before using it to measure chamber length. If so, then we are on the same page about using a fired case as is. Also you mentioned neck sizing only which makes a lot of sense to me. Does it get to a point where the brass gets too snug and there is a need to do a full size? Do you have any recommendations on a die setup. Im leaning toward seater with a micrometer, bushing neck die, and mandrel expander for new brass. Probably redding. Thanks.

Dudedog said:

Welcome to THR lots of great people here!

I'm sure you will get some good answers shortly.

I do a lot more pistol than rifle but
one thing to be aware of is some digital scales don't work well to trickle into, some do, some don't.

I prefer using my 5-0-5 balance when trickling, digital for checking thrown charges that I am going to take as thrown once the measure is set.

New brass might or might not be in spec, I would be really tempted to size it, but I don't normally use new brass, others who do probably have a better idea on this.

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Thanks for the tip on the digital scale. Im planning to remove the digital scale from the list for now and just trickle into the hornady balance scale I have. Maybe get a charge master down the road.

Blue68f100 said:

With Lapula brass I find it does need the necks expanded to reduce neck tension. The expander is what I use but then run it back through the Redding Type-S sizing die with the correct bushing. The body part does not touch. You can use a Neck sizing die here too.

As far as the chamfer/deburring tool I would recommend Redding special inside Chamfer tool for it has a special angle for the boat tail bullets.

When it comes to sizing the brass after being cleaned your shooting for 0.001"-0.002" max setback of the shoulder to allow for easy bolt closing. A lot of handloads shooting for the best they can get, anneal the brass after every firing to keep the neck tension uniform throughout the life of the brass. With the ELD's bullets they require a special seating stem so the tip does not bottom out in the stem. I had to order one for my Redding competition seating die. Also with the ELD's they seam to be very jump (to lands) tolerant. My 6.5CM is a custom AR-10 that I built so I'm limited to magazine length. With a bolt gun you do not have to worry about this restriction since you can single feed pretty easily.

If I recall I'm at the 0.020" bullet to land jump on my AR with the mfg published OAL. I do have about 0.020" more length I can extend mine if needed. So far have not found the need.

I'm getting the best results with H4350, and Varget. H4350 gives me more velocity over the Varget. I'm using the Hornady 140gr ELD-M and Sierra's 130gr TMK bullets. Both have given me excellent results.

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Great info on this reply, thank you. You confirmed what I have read about new lapua brass neck tension. The redding inside chamfer tool seems like a no brainer and its in the cart for sure. I had no idea about the redding VLD seating stem for the ELD's which is what I have. I see they make two different lengths, standard and long. Did you purchase a long for the eld's? Would you mind telling me your go to charge for the 140 ELD's and H4350.

So I bought my rifle and now understand why to use a fired and resized case for the lands measuring device. The ejector forces the case to the front of the chamber. Simple. I decided to go with the Hornady Match grade die set. There are several reasons I chose this set. Good price. Specific seating stem for the bullets I plan to use. An expanding sphere for sizing the neck of new brass as well as bushing inserts for adjusting neck tension. The seater has a micrometer and the lock rings are much better than say an rcbs die. It is a beautiful set. The next question I have hanging over my head is what are the signs of over pressure. It seems like it may be hard to judge the change of shape of the curved edge of a primer. Is it obvious? What are some other pressure signs to look out for? Really appreciate all the replies. Great forum.