Can you really tame the 40 cal.

Short answer is yes. You can make powderpuff 9-minor-level loads in 40. https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?members/waktasz.7499/ is a Grand Master USPSA shooter and, IIRC, uses minor PF 40 loads.

If you're looking for load data, I'd pick a fast-ish powder and work down from the published start load. Obviously, watch for stuck bullets if you get down to the <750 fps level. Use a chrono. You will likely hit problems with getting the gun to cycle long before you stick a bullet in the barrel. If I were doing this, I would look at VV N320 and AA#2 and Zip. I have never played with Clays, but have worked down with the powders I just listed.

While it will never be as light recoiling as 9mm can be, a 40S&W with 180gr TC lead bullet charged with Universal Clays (not just "Clays" - thanks Hodgdon!) is an accurate and smooth load that will cycle. As usual, the primer and charge weight make a difference to get enough pressure to burn cleanly. It is not a bare minimum load, like those above.

cougar1717 said:

While it will never be as light recoiling as 9mm can be, a 40S&W with 180gr TC lead bullet charged with Universal Clays (not just "Clays" - thanks Hodgdon!) is an accurate and smooth load that will cycle. As usual, the primer and charge weight make a difference to get enough pressure to burn cleanly. It is not a bare minimum load, like those above.

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If he's only trying to hit minor PF, it would probably make more sense to look at the lighter bullets... heck, they make 135 grain 40's, and lots of people use 147's in 9mm. 155's and 165's would probably be the place to start. A 180 at minor PF is getting close to possibly stuck-in-bore velocities... a bad thing when shooting at action/practical game paces!

For a given power factor most shooters find that the heavier bullet will fell softer than a light bullet. No doubt a 135 or 155 will feel nice at Minor Power Factor but a 180gr 40S&w at Minor power factor feels super soft. I ran an XD-45 in Production for a season shooting 200gr bullets at ~675 fps and it was super soft. Titegroup works really well and cheap with these heavy slow loads. You will have to find a softer recoil spring to make it run reliably.

I'm impressed you were able to get the gun to behave properly and the bullets to stabilize well at those velocities! I'm definitely a believer in generally going heavy (I use 220's to make major) in non-compensated guns... just surprised you got that to work well with a semi. I'm sure those shot very soft!

ATLDave said:

I'm impressed you were able to get the gun to behave properly and the bullets to stabilize well at those velocities! I'm definitely a believer in generally going heavy (I use 220's to make major) in non-compensated guns... just surprised you got that to work well with a semi. I'm sure those shot very soft!

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I was using wax lubricated 200gr cowboy action bullets. I had converted the XD-45ACP Tactical to run 1911 recoil springs and had the recoil spring so light I had to lighten my striker spring so it would stay in battery. Thus requiring Federal primers to get reliable ignition (not an issue since that was all my revolvers were getting too). I was running Titegroup just to get the pressure up for a good seal with the case. The cases leaked badly with slower powders. The hot burning Titegroup mixed with soft lead bullets was a unholy and smokey mess. By the time a match was done the loaded chamber indicator was stuck up from all the wax and gunk blowing back. It was a fun, super cheap to feed and a soft shooting gun, but was filthy by the time a match was done. I ended up selling the XD-45 to fund my S&W 627. I hind sight it might not have been worth the effort but I had a lot of fun making it work.

A 180g plated bullet around 750fps (135pf) cycles my Glock 35 reliably for me. It makes me laugh because recoil is a joke. My wife does struggle with that load because she tends to limp wrist it occasionally which will cause problems

3.5g of bullseye is what I am shooting and it is very soft, softer than the 124g 9mm load of similar pf (5.0g be86) in the same gun (9mm conversion barrel)

lonewolf5347 said:

Can you really tame the 40 cal

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Of course, especially for minor power factor loads for IDPA/USPSA.

lonewolf5347 said:

Glock 35 ... IDPA ... just enough to get the power factor for IDPA.

Like to here about light load data on the 40 cal.

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When I switched from Glock 17/19/26 to Glock 22/23/27, I used 40-9 conversion barrels to shoot 9mm for practice.

If barrel swap is not an option, 40S&W can be tamed with many popular powders to comparable 9mm target load recoil. This Guns & Ammo article compares 125-135 power factor loads using 155-180 gr bullets with plenty of loads to choose from - http://www.handgunsmag.com/ammo/ammunition_40lite_091806/

mcb said:

For a given power factor most shooters find that the heavier bullet will feel softer than a light bullet. No doubt a 135 or 155 will feel nice at Minor Power Factor but a 180gr 40S&w at Minor power factor feels super soft.

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+1. I shot USPSA with 40S&W 155/165/180 gr FMJ/JHP bullets. I found heavier bullets with lighter charge of powder produced relatively lower felt recoil than lighter bullets pushed to same power factor.

For me, W231/HP-38/Sport Pistol produced less snappy recoil than Bullseye/Red Dot/Promo which are faster burning. I used 180 gr TCFP with around 4.0 gr of W231/HP-38 that produced comparable 9mm felt recoil to introduce new shooters to 40S&W.

But since W231/HP-38 is temperature sensitive, if you are loading close to PF during summer, you will need to increase powder charge in the colder winter days (or use Sport Pistol which is less temperature sensitive) - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...s-and-discussions.778197/page-7#post-10117881

I developed a load with Auto Comp and the 180 TC lead that was a peach in a G22 right at 926fps, stock barrel too with range scrap. Not many would guess but 40 S&W is a nice cartridge for cast loads.

Not sure I fully understand. Had a CZ75 in .40 cal. Never considered it needed to be tamed.

I'd say 300 with an aftermarket barrel is a steal if in working condition. That's a good price for a police trade-in G22.

I've not loaded anything quite as light as you're after, but you can work down from my starting loads. All are from a G22 with factory barrel. Will definitely need to lighten the recoil spring for 135PF. Hard to beat Titegroup for this sort of thing. Sport Pistol looks a little too slow for 135PF to me. These are very light-shooting loads; I'd think by 135PF you'd have to go by the sound. I agree with the suggestion to use a chrono to monitor the progress as you work down.

xtreme 165HP (plated)
1.135" OAL
4.7gr. Titegroup
CCI SPP
WIN brass
Extreme Spread 20
Average 957fps
Standard Deviation 7
FPS PFactor
1 958 158
2 964 159
3 944 156
4 963 159
5 956 158
6 958 158
-----------------------------------------
xtreme 165HP (plated)
1.135" OAL
5.1gr. Sport Pistol
CCI SPP
Federal brass
Extreme Spread 29
Average 971fps
Standard Deviation 10
FPS PFactor
1 976 161
2 978 161
3 955 158
4 984 162
5 958 158
6 975 161
7 976 161
-----------------------------------------
Armscor 180RNFP (jacketed)
1.125" OAL
4.3gr. Titegroup
CCI SPP
Federal brass
Extreme Spread 23
Average 878fps
Standard Deviation 7
FPS PFactor
1 880 158
2 893 161
3 879 158
4 973 157
5 881 159
6 870 157

The hottest load I tried was 7.5gr. of CFE Pistol with the xtreme 165HP for a PF of ~200. You darn sure know when those go off.

lonewolf5347 said:

I have a buddy that no longer uses his Glock 35.
The purpose for me would be to run it in IDPA
I now run my glock17 in 9 mm just enough to get the power factor for IDPA.
I was looking at the blue label 34 for 540.00 at the LGS
He wants 300.00 for his 35 also has a aftermarket barrel for lead.
I been searching seem Clays powder for light loads is a good powder for light loads.
Like to here about light load data on the 40 cal.

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Clays is perfect for what you want to do....My daughter in law loves to shoot my 40s but full loads were too much for her little wrist, so I grab a bottle of my Clays and worked up a load for her and she likes it. Just start low and work up until you like it.

May I ask what is the benefit of switching from a Glock 9mm platform to a Glock 40 S&W platform in IDPA? Is the caliber more accurate? Even at minor pf?

Not exactly helpful for the purpose of games, but a 40sw in a revolver is somewhere in between 38spl and 357. Very very manageable. Even run to the edge of 10mm auto data it was pretty tame compared to slide guns.

And the benefit for IDPA is that your tossing a bigger hunk of lead which has ever so slightly a better chance to find it's target. In Bullseye the difference would be more notable.

I sent some time working up lighter loads for my .40 competition gun so I could use the heavier loads to make Major PF for USPSA, and then the mouse fart loads for Steel Challenge where there are no PF requirements.

Tried several different bullet weights and powder types/weights, and realized when it was all said and done that it was not worth the effort for me.

I tested coated bullets in 140 gr., 155 gr., 165 gr., and 180 gr.

I tested WST, TiteGroup, W231 (HP-38), Sport Pistol and VV N320.

I have all the data, but I need to go back and look at my conclusions as to my favorites and why.

OK, I found some info:

I was trying to make sure I made minor power factor. I am loading for an STI competition pistol, so my COAL is very long at 1.180", which probably won't work for other models.

Here is the link to the thread:
https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/light-loads-for-40-s-w.834614/



Here are the two loads that I really liked, which both turned out to be with WST. They were both soft shooting and VERY accurate and met minor Power Factor:

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Total number of shots 13
Bullet Type: Bayou RN
Bullet Weight: 155
Powder: WST
Weight: 3.8
COAL: 1.18
Primer: CCI 500
Case: Mixed

Stats - Average 877.85 fps
Stats - Highest 906.00 fps
Stats - Lowest 846.00 fps
Stats - Ext. Spread 60.00 fps
Stats - Std. Dev 17.96 fps
Avg Power Factor 134.27

---

Total number of shots 15
Bullet Type: Bayou RN
Bullet Weight: 140
Powder: WST
Weight: 4.2
COAL: 1.18
Primer: CCI 500
Case: Mixed

Stats - Average 941.40 fps
Stats - Highest 980.00 fps
Stats - Lowest 901.00 fps
Stats - Ext. Spread 79.00 fps
Stats - Std. Dev 20.05 fps
Avg Power Factor 129.28