Ninth Circuit Upholds CA Microstamping Law… Microstamping Doesn’t exist

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Except that is already being done with requiring motor vehicles to reach certain standards in engine emissions by a future date written into the law even though current technology cannot meet those standards.
That is requiring compliance in the future, not today. That's entirely different from requiring compliance now that cannot be achieved now based on the idea that it might be achievable at some time in the future.
Since microstamping does not affect revolvers and single shot firearms it is not preventing exercising constitutional rights...
That would have to be determined by a court ruling. While SCOTUS has not ruled that semi-automatic firearms, as a class, are explicitly protected by the constitution, neither have they ruled that they could constitutionally be banned completely.

Given that Heller's protection of handguns was based, in large part, on the fact that they are extremely commonly used for self-defense, it seems likely that if the matter comes before SCOTUS, and the court is roughly similar to what we have today, the same kind of rationale would protect semiautomatic firearms given that they are also extremely commonly used for self-defense.
 
Found the quote in Heller;

Justice Scalia said there's an "important limitation" on the right to bear arms.

" We think that limitation is fairly supported by the historical tradition of prohibiting the carrying of 'dangerous and unusual weapons ',"

The fact the neither you and I think semi-auto handguns are not "dangerous and unusual" has no importance in what the Courts decide.
 
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Given that far more semi-automatic handguns are sold than revolvers in the U.S., it would be ludicrous to attempt to claim that semi-autos could be reasonably characterized as "unusual weapons".

Furthermore, that clause is explicitly about restricting the "carrying" of certain kinds of weapons, not about banning their ownership/possession.
 
Given that far more semi-automatic handguns are sold than revolvers in the U.S., it would be ludicrous to attempt to claim that semi-autos could be reasonably characterized as "unusual weapons".

Furthermore, that clause is explicitly about restricting the "carrying" of certain kinds of weapons, not about banning their ownership/possession.
Ugh, a horrible semantic oversight that could have been easily avoided by using "dangerously unusual" instead.
 
Yep. It'd be hilarious if every firearms manufacturer and ammunition manufacturer in the country went the way of Barrett.

Of course, that wouldn't stop California from obtaining foreign made firearms and ammunition, but still...
Yeah, but it'd either cost them a TON more money, OR they'd have to deal with somebody like Kalashnikov or Norinco and take it in the shorts PR-wise.
 
This ruling is a good example of what happens when judges rule based on what they want the outcome to be and not based on the law or on common sense.
To put a fine point on it, the judges are ruling on what the legislators wrote into law.

Now, if the law comports with their perception of a correct world, that is one thing. From reading the decision, the judges could find no fault in the mechanism of the law, which does not address whether or not the law is possible. Further, if memory serves, the microstaming requirement is held in abatement until such time as the technology actually exists demonstrably.

From our point of view, it's a pointless and useless thing, much like adding phasers to CCW laws. So, "we" seek out reasons for this effort. Which leads us to all sorts of skullduggery and suspicion. Which is not getting this drivel consigned to the catbox where it belongs.
 
To put a fine point on it, the judges are ruling on what the legislators wrote into law.
They SHOULD be ruling not just on what the legislators intended, but also based on common sense within the framework of the constitution. Part of the judiciary's job is to overturn laws that are unreasonable, unworkable, unjust, or which do not conform to the constitution.
Further, if memory serves, the microstaming requirement is held in abatement until such time as the technology actually exists demonstrably.
I haven't researched the law extensively, but it seems, based on some light research, that the law has been in effect since 2013 and is at least one of the reasons that new models of semiautomatic handguns are not being shipped/sold in CA.
 
To put a fine point on it, the judges are ruling on what the legislators wrote into law.

Now, if the law comports with their perception of a correct world, that is one thing. From reading the decision, the judges could find no fault in the mechanism of the law, which does not address whether or not the law is possible. Further, if memory serves, the microstaming requirement is held in abatement until such time as the technology actually exists demonstrably.

From our point of view, it's a pointless and useless thing, much like adding phasers to CCW laws. So, "we" seek out reasons for this effort. Which leads us to all sorts of skullduggery and suspicion. Which is not getting this drivel consigned to the catbox where it belongs.

Doesn't even seem practical for firearms and ammunition.

However, since a serial number can be lasered on to the edge of a diamond, I'm sure that technology could be ported/implemented within this industry. IMO, most legislation aimed at firearms and ammunition seems to be an infringement on 2A.
 
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There's no other constitutional right that sees incursions into the right reviewed so deferentially.

Just imagine a speech regulation that required that all email speech come with a form of intrinsically secure biometric authentication such that all emails can be perfectly traced to the individual natural person who sent them. And that all email speech lacking that feature is prohibited. Further imagine that no such technology exists. Now, imagine a court saying that is a reasonable infringement on free speech.
 
Ladies and Gentlemen, I present to you "sensible gun control". A mountain of red tape, so high, so expensive, that it becomes impossible to comply. People all over the country have been caught in the web they are weaving and it's only going to get worse.
 
Just imagine a speech regulation that required that all email speech come with a form of intrinsically secure biometric authentication such that all emails can be perfectly traced to the individual natural person who sent them. And that all email speech lacking that feature is prohibited. Further imagine that no such technology exists. Now, imagine a court saying that is a reasonable infringement on free speech.
Many of the anti 2A crowd would support this and leftist politicians dream of it.
 
Doesn't even seem practical for firearms and ammunition.

However, since a serial number can be lasered on to the edge of a diamond, I'm sure that technology could be ported/implemented within this industry. IMO, most legislation aimed at firearms and ammunition seems to be an infringement on 2A.
It's not just putting a serial number, they want the stamping to transfer to every round shot out of the gun.
 
Doesn't even seem practical for firearms and ammunition.

However, since a serial number can be lasered on to the edge of a diamond, I'm sure that technology could be ported/implemented within this industry. IMO, most legislation aimed at firearms and ammunition seems to be an infringement on 2A.


Exactly.....lasered......how big of a laser would you need to attach to the inside of a pistol to make this work?


Have you seen the lasers they use to mark diamonds? Not small.
 
It will be forced on the OEM ammunition and reloading components manufacturers. They will be be able to "stamp" each bullet and case with a unique ID at the time of production. We will have to register with some new Fed alphabet agency and get a new unique ID or maybe use something like our drivers license number, CHL number, SS number, etc. Then we will have to register that unique ID with our preferred vendors. Even better, we will have to purchase our ammo in minimum 10K lots, directly from the vendor, and at probably 5 times the current cost. :(
 
A gun site that scans your retina when you aim and then uploads it to a satellite to confirm you are the guns registered owner who has paid all their licencing fees and paid for all their classes they mandated and paid for all their insurance. If you miss your fee or they change your gun laws it electronically disables your gun. Someone can make a fake charge against you to disable your gun by their on the fly bg checks before invading your home. In times of emergency or martial law they also electronically disable your gun. Sci Fi crapola! But not far off then what is being talked about.
 
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It will be forced on the OEM ammunition and reloading components manufacturers. They will be be able to "stamp" each bullet and case with a unique ID at the time of production.

Sort of.
How the law is written, the firearm is meant to impinge, by a microstamp, a unique identifier on every round fired. These laws often do not specify whether it is the cartridge case, or the round, or both, that are meant to be stamped.

The unstated "theory" behind that, is that, if a fired bullet*and/or casing) is found where it ought not to be, the marking will identify the firearm that shot it.*

For that to work at all, there has to be a database of all the identifiers, which would then lead to a typical ATFE records search.The lawmakers carefully omitted any requirement for a registry of owners.**

Now, the above idea, to have bullets manufactured with identifying info or serial numbers, is very dangerous. It would be a way to "close" the handloading "loophole" that vexes every call for serialized ammo.*** Of course "we" have to resist, in every circumstance, all urges by government to meddle in ammunition sales (whole or in parts). That road leads to many, many bad things. The sericomic "You can have as many guns as you want, but only one bullet" being only one. Restricting ammo sales means less work for ammunition makers. Which, like any constrained industry will "bleed" talent to industries which are working.
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*Lawmakers have some knowledge on how to make laws, but not necessarily anything else. The fact that bullets tend to be malleable (and we often want them to be so) has escaped legislative attention. The distinct lack of ways to "stamp" a round that is fired (as opposed to merely chambered) is much ignored as well. This is only usefull if a company advanced itself and claims to be able to microstamp. "We" will then need to lean on them heavily to prove, conclusively, that the tech works. Otherwise it's vaporware, and the law can be stayed.

**There are a myriad of laws preventing centralized registration of gun owners. Which is a feat we owners and our lobbyists ought give frequent thanks for (even with their bruises and warts). So, most lawmakers make sure to not suggest that they want such registries. (They may hope for them, it is our job to thwart them at every turn.)

***"What do you mean 'What about cast bullets?' " The handloading community is resourceful and varied and quite skilled.
Our lawmakers do not understand (and I'm comfortable with not educating them) that the economies of scale in ammunition component manufacture tends to lots in the tens of thousands per each. Thus, any new marking scheme would take considerable time to see any results. Much like if there were an insistance to stamp a lollypop on every new-made AR, it would take many years before an appreciable fraction of ARs would all have lollypop stamps.
 
Hopefully legislation will never come to this point. IMO, restrictive laws only drive a black market for goods/services which is where I'd buy my guns/ammo should the need arise.

Of course there will be a "war" on illegal guns/ammo; I'm sure it would be just as effective as the "war" on drugs.
 
Given the recent attention payed to a number of high profile police shootings in recent years, in a left leaning state by California that has ridiculously low standards for getting a ballot initiative going, it might not be too hard to propose a law that hold law enforcement to the same microstamping standards as civilians.

After all, don’t we want to increase accountability for police who fire their weapons? Wouldn’t it be useful in the wake of a police shooting to know exactly who fired what rounds?
 
Wasn't it Maryland that recently abandoned their 'ballistic fingerprinting' scheme (where they have a case from every firearm sold on hand for comparison) because in over 15 years not a SINGLE case had been solved by it? http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/bs-md-bullet-casings-20151107-story.html Millions of dollars spent for nothing. Great!:)

This 'microstamping' will be the same deal. How proud are these stamps? How long until they're worn down...either by shooting or cleaning or sanding? What about steel cases....if it can print on brass it's going to have trouble with steel.

I think they know deep inside that this won't solve or even help any problems and is just one more cut of a thousand hoping to kill the evil gun beast. We will resist and we will prevail.
 
Given the recent attention payed to a number of high profile police shootings in recent years, in a left leaning state by California that has ridiculously low standards for getting a ballot initiative going, it might not be too hard to propose a law that hold law enforcement to the same microstamping standards as civilians.

After all, don’t we want to increase accountability for police who fire their weapons? Wouldn’t it be useful in the wake of a police shooting to know exactly who fired what rounds?

The matching of a bullet to a particular officer's gun can be done fairly effectively right now by matching ballistic markings.


I know this because I watch C. S. I. :p
 
Of course there will be a "war" on illegal guns/ammo; I'm sure it would be just as effective as the "war" on drugs.
You raise a good point. Many of these illegal guns are very crude, unsafe and of course not micro stamped. Additionally criminals may not have training in shooting technique and the safe handling of firearms. These factors could lead to criminals shooting someone by accident.
Maybe California should have a gun exchange and training program for criminals?
Exchange safer microstamped guns (with 10 round mags) for the unsafe guns.
Train criminals in gun safety and marksmanship thereby restricting shootings to the intended victims.
Make it easier for law enforcement to find the perpetrators after shooting.
 
Doesn't even seem practical for firearms and ammunition.

However, since a serial number can be lasered on to the edge of a diamond, I'm sure that technology could be ported/implemented within this industry. IMO, most legislation aimed at firearms and ammunition seems to be an infringement on 2A.

And the point of this is WHY?

Why should this "have" to be done in the first place?

There is no practical reason to do so, PERIOD...with the singular exception of GUN CONTROL by the GOVERNMENT over the CITIZENS.

It provides no other practical benefit, no matter WHAT the gun control fanatics bray about in their dreamland of rainbows unicorn farts. NONE.
 
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