More than a few years ago there was an incident that happened at an off the road shooting range out west. I've related it previously at a different time on this site but it bears a re-telling. A stranger pulled up at this range, flashed a badge telling the shooters that he was from the Fish and Wildlife Department and he had to confiscate their guns because they were doing something illegal. They handed over their guns and this stranger took their weapons and started shooting them. I know he was arrested but I've never forgotten this and I'd never hand over a weapon for a stranger to shoot. Let him look at it, yes, but in an unloaded condition.
Person killed at the local range
- Thread starter brasscollector
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TomJ
Contributing Member
I'm wondering if that person was in their personal car. If pulled over or questioned by a LEO who's in plain clothes, I'd recommend asking them to have a uniformed officer in a marked car come to the scene. If done respectfully, the officer should understand as there are too many stories of criminals impersonating police.
An AD took the life of a man at a local Range here in Houston ~6-8~ months ago. Victim was in the parking lot.
Some minor gunsmithing services are provided at the Range, and the AD occurred while rifle was in possession of a Range Employee.
Heard that the Firearm was taken by L.E. to be checked out for any mechanical-operational issues.
The victim had a family/kids. The Employee's life will never be the same.
Very, very sad occurrence.
Some minor gunsmithing services are provided at the Range, and the AD occurred while rifle was in possession of a Range Employee.
Heard that the Firearm was taken by L.E. to be checked out for any mechanical-operational issues.
The victim had a family/kids. The Employee's life will never be the same.
Very, very sad occurrence.
P5 Guy
Member
A large chain of shop/ranges that used to rent guns had a couple of suicides, the worst one was a mother and son. Mom shot her boy and then herself.
No more rental guns now.
No more rental guns now.
TeaCoffee.Guy
Member
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Yes, suicide is always a sad and difficult subject to discuss. And it always seem to leave the problem for others to try to prevent it from happening again.
The gun store in town has trigger locks on every gun in the store. I never knew why they did that untill the clerk told me that a customer in one of their stores, had asked to look at a rifle, and then the customer loaded the rifle with a bullet that he had brought with him, and then he shot himself.
I certainly don't like what he did but I don't see why the gun store has to be so afraid of such an event happening again.
Instead of trigger locking every gun I think that it would be better to just screen the people better who want to handle the guns.
First, ask the customer a few polite questions about why they want to see a particular gun.
Second, ask the customer if they have any training in firearm safety or a hunting licence or some proof that the gun will be used legally.
Third, ask the customer about anything that is on their mind that they feel is important to talk about with regards to them needing a gun.
I think that it would be fairly easy to tell if a person really should have a firearm, and/or if they are not in a stable and sane frame of mind.
The gun store in town has trigger locks on every gun in the store. I never knew why they did that untill the clerk told me that a customer in one of their stores, had asked to look at a rifle, and then the customer loaded the rifle with a bullet that he had brought with him, and then he shot himself.
I certainly don't like what he did but I don't see why the gun store has to be so afraid of such an event happening again.
Instead of trigger locking every gun I think that it would be better to just screen the people better who want to handle the guns.
First, ask the customer a few polite questions about why they want to see a particular gun.
Second, ask the customer if they have any training in firearm safety or a hunting licence or some proof that the gun will be used legally.
Third, ask the customer about anything that is on their mind that they feel is important to talk about with regards to them needing a gun.
I think that it would be fairly easy to tell if a person really should have a firearm, and/or if they are not in a stable and sane frame of mind.
This is a very sobering topic, that I just haven't thought of much, until now. While I am at this range, I always looked at the safety end of it, but just never gave the suicide part enough attention. I would let some people shoot some of my guns, but tonight, I am rethinking all of this. Thank you for all the input, through these posts. Very sad and hitting home alittle.
Riomouse911
Member
Same here, 21 to rent a gun and must bring someone along with you.
Riomouse911
Member
I hate to say it, but its not that easy.
I can name several people who showed no outward signs of suicidal thoughts who surprised us all by killing themselves;,Armando, Tim, Matt, my ex wife’s good friends Carrie and her husband (I forgot his name), etc.
It’s sad when people end their lives, especially violently and in public. I can imagine the trauma suffered by the gun store staff when the guy did it...so I can understand the trigger lock thing they chose to do (as much as it would bug me, too).
Stay safe!
beeenbag
Member
Do you realize how frustrated I would be if I was questioned like that at a gun store for asking to see one?
I understand where you are going with the thought, but lets face it, that is not practical at all, nor would it be good for business. I, and I assume many more, would be so put off by the barrage of questions that really aren't any of their business, that I would most likely take my business elsewhere.
JR24
Member
Exactly, that would infuriate me (not really, its hard to actually make me mad) and I would look elsewhere immediately. I dont like hassle, and I'd like getting a ameture psychiatrist-ed even less.
Ignition Override
Member
At the only private shooting club near Memphis, a Weird suicide method was used many years ago.
A friend told me that a guy went into a concealed area behind one of the rifle ranges (thick bushes on the berms back then?), so that Other people Might Shoot him. It worked.
This was years before the recent major renovation to double the height of the berms, to better prevent ricochets going into farmland.
A friend told me that a guy went into a concealed area behind one of the rifle ranges (thick bushes on the berms back then?), so that Other people Might Shoot him. It worked.
This was years before the recent major renovation to double the height of the berms, to better prevent ricochets going into farmland.
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Mowgli Terry
Member
When I was going to school we had to pick a topic for a paper. The choice was on forensic autopsies. Those autopsies are used to assess deaths to determine suicide or homicide. Many factors prior to suicide are subtle or hidden. We have not had a suicide at our local rifle club, Some anti gun people are convinced that gun control will reduce or stop suicide. Our range is members only. The members only situation reduces all kinds of problems. The operative word is "reduces."
I agree, yet undoubtably, you would have that someone ranting on THR about how a gun clerk hassled them when buying a firearm and that they would never shop there again. Me, I am happy that I get carded buying booze--or identifying myself at the bank with photo id. It shows that they are taking security seriously
Japan has one of the developed world's highest suicide rates yet almost no one can own a firearm there. People will simply switch means of killing themselves with more or less success. Suffocation and poisoning are two common alternatives that are almost impossible to stop via legislation. I also suspect that the number of individuals committing suicide by wrecking their vehicle may be understated as well. According to WISQARS data from the CDC, between 1999 and 2016, about half of the suicides came from firearms and about half from other means and this varies by age group. https://www.cdc.gov/injury/wisqars/fatal.html
The WISQARS dataset on injury, death, etc. has an online data function where you can ask your own questions and for those morbidly inclined, you can drill down to specific causes of death and variables among its distribution in particular years e.g. long gun, hand gun, age, demographics, even death by drowning in a swimming pool, etc.
.455_Hunter
Member
A few years ago, I pulled into a LGS/Indoor Range facility. Walking in, I barely noticed the man a few spaces over who appeared to be accessing his trunk by pulling down the back seat and leaning inside via the open back passenger door, obviously getting some shooting equipment. Fast forward 45 minutes during a sudden thunder storm and and one of the employees on his smoke break comes in and yells- "Who left their car door open?" No response, so he walks out there and quickly comes back in- "Call the police, a man has been shot".
It turns out the man, who may or may not have already been dead when I first saw him, had shot on the range with his 9mm P226, and was apparently reloading it with carry ammo in the front seat when he ND'ed into his chest. He got out, walked around to the passenger door, opened it, pulled down the rear seat access, and was attempting to get something out of the trunk (phone, medical kit?) when he expired.
The next three hours we a series of detective interviews and witness statement writing. Initially, the concern was that this could have been a robbery gone bad in the range parking lot.
May he RIP.
It turns out the man, who may or may not have already been dead when I first saw him, had shot on the range with his 9mm P226, and was apparently reloading it with carry ammo in the front seat when he ND'ed into his chest. He got out, walked around to the passenger door, opened it, pulled down the rear seat access, and was attempting to get something out of the trunk (phone, medical kit?) when he expired.
The next three hours we a series of detective interviews and witness statement writing. Initially, the concern was that this could have been a robbery gone bad in the range parking lot.
May he RIP.
FL-NC
Member
Shooting and hunting are sports. While all deaths are tragic, there are much more dangerous sports based on the numbers of injuries and fatalities that occur when accidents happen during the conduct of these sports.
sparkyv
Member
Yes on the switching means, and yes on the understated suicide by wrecking the vehicle.
I have no words. Sorry you had to go through that experience.
Mowgli Terry
Member
Basically, suicide be in car or with firearm, is a mental health concern.
sparkyv
Member
I think it is a spiritual matter, Mowgli Terry.
Mowgli Terry
Member
Yep, the old time assessment was helpless, hopeless and hapless. In the broader sense of the word it is spiritual. I have spoken with those who were on the edge of taking their life.The level of despair is unbelievable. I stand by what I say. It is a mental health problem. Don't want to argue because we are saying the same thing in different words. God speaks to us in many different ways.
Jim Watson
Member
A rental range hereabouts had one or more suicides.
They got more adverse publicity when it was learned that a murderess had practiced there before shooting up a faculty meeting.
They got more adverse publicity when it was learned that a murderess had practiced there before shooting up a faculty meeting.
sparkyv
Member
Fair enough. I've not spoken with anybody that has had that much hopelessness in their lives.
milemaker13
Member
This brings to mind a shooting range in colorado we used to go to. Usually no one around, we would think nothing of leaving our rifles and all that on the benches to take the 300 yd walk to the targets..
One day it dawned on us.. anybody could drive up and take our guns and drive away before we could even start running back... or worse, they could start shooting at us with our own guns! Always carried them with after that. (Unless of course we were with a group in which case some would stay at the bench).
sparkyv, in some cases you may be right in saying that it's a spiritual matter but not in all cases of mental illness can one say that. As an example in mental illness such as narcissism, the narcissist doesn't believe at all in God or in anything else, outside of themselves, so there's no framework there to bring that person to a spiritual awareness. Another example is a person with BiPolar Disorder. If they don't get the right diagnosis and the right medicine by and large they will commit suicide. I think Mowgli Terry is correct in stating that these people with mental illnesses have levels of despair that are unbelievable and it is a mental health problem. It's like saying that a starving man needs spiritual help, which could be true, but not until he's fed and well cared for will he be open to spiritual guidance.
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