My Gunsmith takes a hit.

Jeb Stuart · Oct 28, 2018

For years, I have a fantastic gun smith. Great service, great prices, quick to get things down, and even got to know his family, Wife, daughter, new Baby and even their two dogs.
I ordered a New Smith and Wesson 642 last week and used him for my FFL dealer. When I went by, I saw a sign posted that he was out of business. It also said that any deliverers be made to *(*(*&&& a local LGS. So I went to this location which is notorious for selling guns at very high cost.
And there behind the counter was my Gun Smith. He saw be and quickly came over, apologized for the inconvience and told me in a low tone. Go someone else for the re-shipement. He use to charge $20.00. This place charges $50.00. He told me that he tried in Vain to get the owner to allow his previous customers the ability to pay only the $20.00 that he use to charge and of course his customers would bring in new business. The owner said NO. I asked if he will still do gun Smith work on his own, and he said no, it will have to go through this LGS.
I told him, I will miss him and his family, wished him well, but will use the services of another local dealer that only charges $20.00 and has a reputable gun smith. If he ever decides to get back into business for himself, call me and he will get my business again, however I will not give this LGS a dime.

It is sad to this happen. I do wish him and his family well. I could tell he was not happy about the new place he was working, but a man has to do what he has to do.

Ps, I had to pay Tombstone tactical another $25.00 shipping fee. You would think that the LGS would take that into consideration to get my business.

Hokie_PhD · Oct 28, 2018

That’s sad.

Unfortunately business is tough, and unless you have a way to attract and keep enough customers who are willing to pay what you need to break even you’re out of business. And that’s before making and profit.

Jeb Stuart · Oct 28, 2018

You are correct indeed. However this local LGS just lost business. And I will tell everyone in my Club. Word of mouth means a lot. I will refer to the other LGS to all my friends. They will get more business from this so, in essence, it pays to be competitive when it comes to pricing.
Good customer service would have been to accept my $20.00 realizing I was a former customer of the gun smith and would have to pay a additional $25.00 to have it shipped to his store. Of course after that the standard $50.00 would apply. *** him.

Kano383 · Oct 28, 2018

Well...

Your gunsmith is a nice guy, and has a good relationship with his customers. He used to charge $20 for shipping.

He is out of business.

The other LGS charges $50. He’s a proper asshat with new customers.

But he’s in business...

Somewhere between these two, lies the right way... A nice gunsmith, who charges enough to stay afloat.

Zaydok Allen · Oct 28, 2018

Bummer, but fitting with the trend in many places. I haven't bought a gun from my LGS for a few years just because they haven't had anything I was particularly interested in.

But I buy dies, toolheads, powder dispensers, and as much other reloading stuff as I can from them. They're a good gang and I want to support them.

At least you and the smith parted in good terms. It may lead to future possibilities.

ArchAngelCD · Oct 28, 2018

My small local dealer is now charging $50 to receive gun shipments. I asked him why and he said things are tough and he doesn't get any part of y the profit from an online sale. I can understand that but the only guns I would buy online are guns he can't get for me. Too bad I had to find another dealer because I can't pay $50.

chicharrones · Oct 28, 2018

Kano383 said:
Somewhere between these two, lies the right way... A nice gunsmith, who charges enough to stay afloat.

Yessir.

BTW, the small friendly gun shops around here are drying up again. It's cyclical. The area gets flooded with little start up gun shops during the booms, but they can't sustain themselves during the slow times. Something like up to 5 years seems to be the typical life of a small gun shop around here.

P89DCSS · Oct 28, 2018

Jeb Stuart said:
....And I will tell everyone in my Club. Word of mouth means a lot. I will refer to the other LGS to all my friends....

I wouldn't go to such lengths, esp if I liked the gunsmith. He's already having a hard time and I'd hate to effect his employment because I'm angry at his new boss. I tend to pay the extra cost and move on without making such a big deal out of the unfortunate situation.

Zaydok Allen · Oct 28, 2018

ArchAngelCD said:
things are tough and he doesn't get any part of y the profit from an online sale.

That makes perfect sense and I do the same regarding online sales. If it's in the case or they can get it for me, I buy from them.

Online purchases for me are only a way to get something they can't.

I'm paying $25 for transfers now. If it doubled I wouldn't be happy, but I'd do it to help them out. I only buy a gun or two a year though so it's a small extra cost for me.

Jeb Stuart · Oct 28, 2018

Kano383 said:
Well...

Your gunsmith is a nice guy, and has a good relationship with his customers. He used to charge $20 for shipping.

He is out of business.

The other LGS charges $50. He’s a proper asshat with new customers.

But he’s in business...

Somewhere between these two, lies the right way... A nice gunsmith, who charges enough to stay afloat.

He is in business only because there is a indoor range at his location that attracts every kind of riff raft you can imagine. Where every rule in the book is broken on a constant basis. Take away the range and that guy would not last a day.
Oh he stays in business, because so many that come into that store could never buy a legal gun to begin with and no one in their right mind would pay his prices. Most of the shooters that frequent that place are Non NRA members who rent guns. I bet he makes most of his money on rentals.

Jeb Stuart · Oct 28, 2018

P89DCSS said:
I wouldn't go to such lengths, esp if I liked the gunsmith. He's already having a hard time and I'd hate to effect his employment because I'm angry at his new boss. I tend to pay the extra cost and move on without making such a big deal out of the unfortunate situation.

No one actually making a big deal.I simply parted friends and was honest to tell him, I would take HIS suggestion and go somewhere else. I DID NOT SHOW ANGER. Just because the guy is working at a place I do not buy guns from, does not mean I am not in business with myself as well. I work hard for my money and will not simply pay more because he works there. You are right, business is business and Poor customer service is poor customer service. Regardless if the company is in business.
And if the prices on Gun Smiting is double as well, then more money out of MY pocket. You spend your money they way you want, and I will spend mine. I have always been frugal, but will spend the extra dime on good products and good service to a point.
The Place always has a high turnover of employees to begin with. I doubt he will stay there long, most don't. He has my number.

By the way, My gun Smith had his business for 10 years.

MikeInOr · Oct 28, 2018

Oregon requires a background check for a person to person transfer. A couple months ago I bought a local CZ compact off ArmsList. I discovered all the dealers in my city were charging $50 transfer fee + $10 back ground check fee for a person to person transfer. We had to drive 15 minutes south to find a dealer that charges $25 + $10. Guess where I go for my gun needs now?

The local dealers ask higher prices for used guns than the Cabellas or Sportsmans warehouse 15 min away does for the same gun brand new.

I am glad I am not in the local gun store business! I don't know how any of them survive.

Hokie_PhD · Oct 28, 2018

A wise businessman would have charged the remaining customers like you a discounted price for the transfer. Maybe say $25 as a one time, welcome here special to his old customers who had transfers in process. Limit it to the next 30 days.

This would show their pricing is different but they wanted you as a customer.

That said, I’m sure you’ll find another FFL and I hope they treat you right.

Charlie98 · Oct 28, 2018

Kano383 said:
Your gunsmith is a nice guy, and has a good relationship with his customers. He used to charge $20 for shipping.

He is out of business.

The other LGS charges $50. He’s a proper asshat with new customers.

But he’s in business...

The only difference in that business model is the new LGS doesn't have to be difficult, but I know where he is coming from. I'm a pool equipment installer, I do NOT install any appliances that I myself have not sourced... and there are a myriad reasons for this, including liability, profit, warranty service, and some other things (like getting the correct appliance the first time.) Someone mentioned it before... there is no profit beyond the service charge the LGS makes in an online transfer, which requires time, effort, and... a FFL. I guard my electricians license like the gold it is, and without an FFL, the LGS is out of business. That is not to say an active LGS doesn't make money off sales of other stuff besides an FFL transfer... and that's where the customer service part comes in. You can charge enough money to stay in business if you provide a service value to your customer. I'd be willing to pay $50 for an FFL transfer... provided that LGS was decent to work with and had reasonable prices throughout the rest of the store.

crestoncowboy · Oct 28, 2018

I drive by two stores that charge 20 and 25 dollars only to go to one that charges 30 dollars for internet transfers. 4 this year (dang 40 caliber trade ins). And the store I go to isn't even particularly friendly. Lol. But I like them better and they don't have the same people standing around telling bs stories without buying anything..... and That's worth my 10 bucks and 10 extra miles anyway.....And the last time I went I got hooked up with a 5 gallon bucket full of once fired police 40 brass.

MikeInOr · Oct 28, 2018

Charlie98 said:
You can charge enough money to stay in business if you provide a service value to your customer. I'd be willing to pay $50 for an FFL transfer... provided that LGS was decent to work with and had reasonable prices throughout the rest of the store.

I don't believe a LGS can charge reasonable prices anymore. They have high overhead, lots of money tied up in inventory and low volume. How much over Buds gun shop can a LGS get away with charging? The closest Cabellas is competitive with Buds when their firearms are on sale. I just bought a XD mod 2 compact 3.3" in .45acp for $399 at the local Sportsman's warehouse. This is considerably cheaper than I can buy from buds, pay shipping, credit card fees and transfer fees. The same gun was $525 from a local dealer at the gun show the same weekend... identical gun, except the $525 one was used.

I wish the LGS's the best but I believe they are going to have to reinvent themselves if they are going to stay in business. Sure the LGS guys are almost always more firearm knowledgeable and savvy than the Sportsman's warehouse kids and blow hards... but I do my own research before buying a weapon. Newb's don't know the difference between LGS educated advice and big chain sales pitches (I have seen many times the bad advice given from clerks at the local chains). The LGS's that I see having much of a chance are the one's with shooting ranges... building and running a shooting range isn't a cheap proposition.

Jeb Stuart · Oct 28, 2018

Hokie_PhD said:
That’s sad.

Unfortunately business is tough, and unless you have a way to attract and keep enough customers who are willing to pay what you need to break even you’re out of business. And that’s before making and profit.

340PD said:
You need to do more research on what are commonly called primer swipes. They are common in small guns and are a non factor. At this point in time my P365 has well over 4000 rounds and my co-workers and customers at the range where I RSO, have combined tens of thousands of trouble free rounds fired from their P365's. My second P365 is sitting my safe.

MikeInOr said:
I don't believe a LGS can charge reasonable prices anymore. They have high overhead, lots of money tied up in inventory and low volume. How much over Buds gun shop can a LGS get away with charging? The closest Cabellas is competitive with Buds when their firearms are on sale. I just bought a XD mod 2 compact 3.3" in .45acp for $399 at the local Sportsman's warehouse. This is considerably cheaper than I can buy from buds, pay shipping, credit card fees and transfer fees. The same gun was $525 from a local dealer at the gun show the same weekend... identical gun, except the $525 one was used.

I wish the LGS's the best but I believe they are going to have to reinvent themselves if they are going to stay in business. Sure the LGS guys are almost always more firearm knowledgeable and savvy than the Sportsman's warehouse kids and blow hards... but I do my own research before buying a weapon. Newb's don't know the difference between LGS educated advice and big chain sales pitches (I have seen many times the bad advice given from clerks at the local chain). The LGS's that I see having much of a chance are the one's with shooting ranges... building and running a shooting range isn't a cheap proposition.

It would seem a lower cost on FFL would also draw in New business. Almost as a advertising cost. Have the excitement of buying a new gun, maybe buy a holster that you see, more cleaning supplies, a new range bag, a box of ammo and on and on. Advertising dollars are costly. Why turn down so much business?

JohnKSa · Oct 28, 2018

It would seem a lower cost on FFL would also draw in New business. Almost as a advertising cost. Have the excitement of buying a new gun, maybe buy a holster that you see, more cleaning supplies, a new range bag, a box of ammo and on and on. Advertising dollars are costly. Why turn down so much business?

People who buy online buy online. And the people who focus on the best price as the primary buying incentive aren't buying ammo or cleaning supplies from the LGS, they're getting them from Wal-Mart or buying online. I'm sure there are some exceptions but that's the reality of it. A business model that focuses on drawing in people who won't buy from the business isn't viable. Your gunsmith found that out.

Most of the FFLs I know that charge very low transfer fees don't have storefront overhead to deal with.

LoonWulf · Oct 28, 2018

That sucks, and i feel bad for your gunsmith friend, and his customers.

Just my take on cost etc....
Everyone here charges 20 bucks for the transfer. I have a buddy with an FFL, that gives me wholesale pricing (it really dosent mater much for stuff under 500).
I STILL try to buy as much from the other gun stores shelves as possible, Ill have them order any firearm i want (with 4 different options, theres a dealer for nearly anything here). If they are doing a powder order, they are happy to add what you want to the list and bring in stuff they dont usually carry.
I heavily suggest that people buy all of the guns and equipment that can locally. Even the ladies at the firearms registration counter here usually try to get folks to buy guns locally.

Support your LGS, as best you can, cause at the end of the day they are the closest things to "Friends" in the gun business most of us will ever have.

If the shop/owner your gunsmith is working at now is truely the asshat it sounds like he maybe, he will loose customers no mater what. If he charges those higher fees, but keeps his ordering and stock prices lower give him a chance.

Thats just my spiel.....All that said, there are a few FFLs ill never deal with again. If by some odd fate one of the folks i really LIKED ended up working for them, I would spend some money there to support HIM/HER, and id at least sit and talk for a bit if they had time. If the situation sucks for YOU, imagine what it must be to work there.....

EDIT: As John said also the guys with the lowest prices on firearms dont stock any other stuff, and only order when you do (my buddy).
That makes the other gun stores, or other gun owners, the only place you can actually handle stuff before buying. So spread some love.

Tilos · Oct 28, 2018

I always call my dealer before I buy something and have it sent to him.
He always refers me to an internet site when I'm looking for something new too, because he cannot compete with their prices.
His business nich is he takes trades on new and used gun purchases, a service you can't get on-line, does transfers, and his showcases/racks are full of used guns and consignment guns.
That, and is closed Sat/Sun when he takes most of his stock to 2-3 gun show per month.

10 years ago he was the average traditional local shop but has changed his business model to survive.
His lease is up soon at the strip mall, and our town is booming with new homes and businesses, I hope he able to keep his shop open.

edit: … and our newly opened Ace Hardware, as well as BiMart, are now selling reloading stuff and guns.

JohnKSa · Oct 28, 2018

His business nich is he takes trades on new and used gun purchases, a service you can't get on-line, does transfers, and his showcases/racks are full of used guns and consignment guns.
That, and is closed Sat/Sun when he takes most of his stock to 2-3 gun show per month.

10 years ago he was the average traditional local shop but has changed his business model to survive.

Yup, the few storefront FFLs around here that do offer really cheap transfers have a business model that is heavily based on transactions/services that aren't available online or at places like Wal-Mart. In other words, they're primarily just offering the cheap transfers as a service to their existing customers, they're not trying to make money on volume transfers or expecting the transfers to bring in new business. Their business is based on people coming in for other reasons.

Jeb Stuart · Oct 28, 2018

All things work out for the best. The new place I am be going does have a store front. Actually he also sells military surplus, and is well known in the community for doing great custom work and for custom coating, I already have a number of Smith jobs for him and am looking to get a least one gun with a custom coating. If you are a AR fan, this this place would be your dream for a Local LGS.

Zaydok Allen · Oct 28, 2018

Jeb Stuart said:
No one actually making a big deal.I simply parted friends and was honest to tell him, I would take HIS suggestion and go somewhere else. I DID NOT SHOW ANGER. Just because the guy is working at a place I do not buy guns from, does not mean I am not in business with myself as well

I know you were just being clear and showing emphasis but the irony of saying you didn't show anger in all caps is just too funny not to acknowledge.

Jeb Stuart · Oct 28, 2018

I thought you would get a kick out of that.

BSA1 · Oct 28, 2018

Jeb,

I am glad that you found a LGS that you are happy to deal with but I don't understand your original beef.

As I understand the facts you purchased a gun on-line without checking first with your gunsmith friend to make sure he could handle the transaction.

After making your purchase you discover that he is no longer in business.

Then you learn that the LGS your gunsmith recommends charges more for a transfer that your gunsmith friend.

And to poison the pot more your gunsmith who is now working for him is sending customers to the competition. (So much for employee loyalty);

And you are on a mission to put the LGS out of business all because he will not honor your gunsmith previous transfer fee.

Your argument is by honoring your gunsmith friend transfer fee it will bring more business to the LGS. Maybe. Or more likely maybe not. Obviously the low transfer fee your gunsmith charged did not generate enough repeat customers to stay in business.

Sometimes it is hard to look in the mirror and admit I made a mistake that cost me some extra money. Of course your mirror may being telling you otherwise.

My Gunsmith takes a hit.

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