interesting - more expensive ammunition is more accurate?

HB said:

Some of 140gr HPBT 6.5mm target bullets are mostly hollow. Ogive varies as well.

Different bearing surfaces vs different weight. Regardless each bullet and rifle is a rule unto its own.

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Ahh wasn’t considering HP vs FMJ variable. I agree with the rest of the statement as well.

BigBore45 said:

Not to detour you. Make sure the deer is down. I tried that 64gn power point on deer 3 separate times and it did not perform well. Believe it or not it's too hard. Very little expansion or vital damage.

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I use 64 grain PP’s in my AR because of the accuracy. Shot a couple of Axis deer and hogs with them when calling coyotes. Was happy with the results. My son’s AR likes 65 grain GameKings and they work well on deer and hogs. From what I’ve seen, heard and read, on average Kansas deer are noticeably larger than Texas deer. Maybe that’s a big factor in our different experience with Power Points.

I’ve always read that standard cup and core bullets(not the cheap stuff) were more accurate than the expensive bonded bullets. My limited experience has born that out. I’m talking about hunting bullets, not target bullets.

Handloader Magazine had an article about bullet accuracy and bullet quality some years ago There was a machine (Juenke IIRC) that would measure bullet concentricity

They did extensive tests and found that it had a major effect on accuracy

Think how bullets are made. Lead is squeeed into a brass tube and forced to fill the void. The nose of the bullets is smashed down to a point

When fired the bullet is doing over 200,000 rpm If there is the slightest imbalance the bullet will wobble Their tests showed very substantial differences in accuracy when bullets were sorted by quality

One box of bullets had been dropped on a concrete floor. They could tell the difference in bullet quality and accuracy afterwards

Odd Job said:

Does projectile weight vs barrel twist rate play a part here?

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Almost certainly no. Being above minimum twist rate essentially never causes inaccurracy in small arms.

Ammo has just as much if not more to do with accuracy than the rifle itself.

I’ve never hunted white tail with .223, only because it’s not legal to do so where I hunt, but if I were I’d be looking at a bullet in the 69-77gr range, and one with reliable expansion. There are many good choices available.

Odd Job said:

Does projectile weight vs barrel twist rate play a part here?

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Probably not. There used to be those who believed you could "over-stabilize" a bullet with too fast a twist. That's been debunked. But you CAN under-stabilize a bullet with too slow a twist. The ,250-3000 Savage is a good example -- its twist was set for a short, 87 grain bullet and many 99 Savages will not shoot longer 100 grain bullets worth a hoot.

Now if bullets are disintegrating in mid-air (you'll usually see what looks like a streak of smoke down-range) that's another matter. A combination of very high velocity, fast twist and thin jackets can produce that result..

Lake City M855, about US$0.33/Rd


Black Hills Blue Box 69gr SMK, about US$0.70/Rd




Handloads that I figure would be about US$4.00/Rd if I figured in my time.

The above were all the same day, same shooter ( me ) same rifle, a basic M4gery with a Bushnell 4x.

All were prone with Sling at 100 yards.

I find that the Barnes all copper bullets are the most consistent, almost always +/-.5gr, but I still weigh and sort every one. Since they're all copper, they're almost the same length as the 69gr SMKs.

Ramone said:

All were prone with Sling at 100 yards.

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You should take that show on the road then. The 10-ring for most prone competition is right around 2 MOA. There's a couple national championships with your name on them if it's repeatable.

Even with the same bullet weight and design accuracy can vary wildly.

I loaded up some PRIVI .308 168gr JHPBT's and was getting 6" groups from my R700. Using the same once fired Federal brass and same charge of RL15 with 168GR SMK's was getting me 1/2" groups.

Oops

.223 does fine on deer so long as you use quality ammunition designed for deer, soft point with a correct expansion rate. Federal Fusion 67 gr loads are real good. I have had good results with Hornady 55 SP and Blackhills 55 gr SP as well. With the Blackhills 55 gr so I made a one shot kill on a 285 lbs 14 pts buck. I posted pics before. They work great if you use proper bullets and placement.

I'll add to what has already been said, every gun will shoot ammo differently that other guns with the same ammo.

My Mauser 96 American straight-pull .270 ADORES 130 gr Rem Core Lokt factory ammo. Under 1" at 100 every time, usually .5" to .75".

It doesn't really like factory Federal 130 Hi-Shok, nor the Barnes Vortex with the 130 gr TTSX bullet. 1.75"-2" with those rounds (at best) no matter what I do. But when I handload the 130 TTSX I can get it down to 1"-1.25".

That's what makes firearm ownership (and study) so much fun; finding what works the best in your firearms...and then hitting what you're aiming at when you find it.

Stay safe!

A “thumbnail” experience for me is that “cheap” ammo will perform less consistently than mid-priced ammo which will perform less consistently than premium ammo - noting exceptions all along the way. By far, my most “consistent” experience has been with the reloading process - tailoring components to a particular firearm’s likes. One has more control over all of the many variables for a firearm by reloading but not unlike any grade of factory ammo, it always boils down to the likes of a particular firearm,

Gtscotty said:

I tried some of that American Eagle 55gr FMJ in a known shooter AR last weekend and was surprised by just how awful it was.

Same rifle, same day:
View attachment 810969 View attachment 810970

The AE load seems particularly bad, but I certainly don't think it's reasonable to expect the same accuracy from range-blaster ammo as you would get from hunting or match ammo that was more carefully assembled, from higher quality components.

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I had similar results to that. I didn't realize a company could sell ammo that was that bad and have people continue buying it.

Bfh_auto said:

I had similar results to that. I didn't realize a company could sell ammo that was that bad and have people continue buying it.

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This ammo was never intended, nor advertised, as match grade ammo. It's just decent powered 55gr, FMJ, brass cased, reliable ammo good for training, plinking, etc. purposes.

My pet '06 was consistently sub-MOA for decades, with my handloads. I once bought a box of Federal Premium High Energy; expensive, but sub-MOA.

Wandering through a WalMart one day, I bought a box of Winchester white-box 150-grain for $5. On my bench rest I got the nicest six-inch "group " you'd ever want to see. (Yuck.) Oh, well. New brass.

Captains1911 said:

This ammo was never intended, nor advertised, as match grade ammo. It's just decent powered 55gr, FMJ, brass cased, reliable ammo good for training, plinking, etc. purposes.

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There is a big gap between match grade and what I call acceptable. I want to be able to miss a popcan at 100 yards and know it was me that messed up, not the ammo.

I find the general premise of this thread kind of amusing. Did you think people pay more for premium ammo just because they want to spend more money?

There are few things I can think of that are more expensive that are not superior to the cheaper alternatives. Whether it’s firearms, Optics, clothing, vehicles, even your home.

Some will argue that cheap stuff is just as good. Or at least adequate. Typically, it may be marginally adequate, but very, very rarely ever as good.

Now, you can get screaming deals on expensive products. They still expensive products, just at a great price

There’s a reason Anschutz .22’s cost as much as they do. And shoot like they do. And there’s a reason guys that own them typically buy premium match ammo that’s 10x what Walmart bulk ammo costs.

Of the four different loads I shot this morning, it is true. From most expensive to cheapest, approximately: 0.75", 0.95", 1.75" and 2.75" at 100 yards, -14 Celsius degrees, very light breeze if any, five shot groups, same rifle, same sandbags, same ordinary shooter. No disturbances from other shooters this morning at the range! Didn't walk to go measure, but the squares on the target are 1", so I would say educated guesstimating. Number 1, 3 and 4 were the same brand, but different flavors, brass case vs steel case. 3 and 4 same flavor, different weights. 1 and 4 same weight, different bullet. I guess I have to try as many as I can to find the best one in this particular rifle. Oh no, I will have to go to the range many more times!