Interpreting 38 spcl. snubbie chrono FPS numbers

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nevadabob

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Reno NV
Revolvers: Charter Arms UC Lite & Taurus M85 Titanium. Both 2" barrels.

Powder Charges - Fun plinking target loads:

IMR 7625 5.0gr 125gr Berry's FP plated 1.435 oal - 612 fps

Titegroup 3.4gr 125gr Berry's FP plated 1.435 oal - 600 fps

Win 231 3.7gr 158gr Xtreme RNFP plated 1.435 oal - 553 fps

A#5 6.1gr 125gr Berry's FP plated 1.435 oal - 699 fps

IMR 7625 4.3gr 158gr Xtreme RNFP plated 1.435 oal - 481 fps

Main question: Are these fps numbers adequate for a 2" snubbie? If these rounds were shot through a longer barrel revolver would the fps numbers be greater?

These loads were easy on the hand and accurate. Very manageable. My CA UC Lite did show flame cutting/etching under the top strap. But I understand this to be self-limiting.
I have Hodgdon and Accurate data and Lee's 2nd edition to reference. Thanks for your thoughts.
 
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Rule3 - Very helpful! Thanks...my other concern was since the data I have on hand only mentions tests thru a 4" to 6" revolver and mine are shorter. Was not wanting to use a recipe that would be harmful to my smaller lighter weight guns.
 
With a snubnose, I try to get 750-800 fps with 158 grain bullets in .38 Special. As light as the revolvers you mention are, that might be a bit snappy. 4.6 grains of the 231 you have should get you pretty close to 750fps with a 158gn bullet. Going really light on .38 changes my POI quite a bit (high).
 
Adequate for what purpose? If they are accurate and pleasant to shoot, they should be fine for target practice. I would want a longer barrel for small game, but those loads would work.
 
brewer12345...adequate for fun plinking target loads. I don't want the charges too soft and have the bullet dribble out the barrel nor do I want them running too hot resulting in metal stress. That site mentioned by Rule3 is just the ticket!
 
a fun plinking load is 148gr double ended wad cutter over slightly less than 3gr of bullseye.

Shooting at a dueling tree at 10 yards, you can see the bullet hit then drop to the ground.

That is a soft recoiling load if ever there was one.
 
Bob,

You can only get so much out of a 2" barrel. When you get excessive all you are gonna get is blast and flash.
With your posted data you have variables of 5 different powders and 2 bullets.

Perhaps get Hornady and Speer manuals as they test short barrel actual guns.

The "old" slower powders give more velocity regardless of the barrel length is pretty much true. With lighter bullet like a 125 grain, in a 357 mag 2" will pretty much be as good as H110/W 296. Without as much powder, blast and flash.
BUT faster powders spike the pressure really quick.
With some the new and improved powders I don't know as have not tried them,So there are exceptions and variables to every "golden rule"
For the nay sayers, I have the data I did in a test (non statistically valid)after much debate elsewhere, so not gonna get in another debate over it as it's not the OPs topic.
 
Until such day that Science creates the nuclear sidearm

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you are pretty much limited by F=MA (the recoil you can handle for one thing) and the amount of weight you are willing to carry. There is no doubt that a longer barrel will add more velocity. Now whether velocity equals lethality, that is something that needs to be tested against an agreed on ballistic media. It has been taken as an article of faith that more velocity equals more lethality. I don't agree on that, but there are limits. Handguns are not that impressive, as compared to maces and pole arms, but they will do the job.

There are definite limitations with 38 Special revolvers, but they are, what they are

Code:
Colt Detective Special mfgr 1963    24-Jul-99         T = 100 F !

158 gr LRN 3.5 grs Bullseye thrown, CCI primers mixed  cases                                     

Average 751 fps                                                       
Standard Deviation 32 fps
Extreme Spread 90 fps
High 805
Low 715                                           
Recorded shots 22                           

158 LRN 3.5 grs Bullseye WSP Mixed cases          8-Jan-06 T = 52 F

Ave Vel =675.9                                                                       
Std Dev =18.6                                                                         
ES=96.18                                                                                 
High=723.9                                                                             
Low=627.7                                                                             
N =32                                                                                       
                                                                                                                  

158 LSWC 3.5 grs Bullseye WSP Mixed cases       8-Jan-06  T = 58 F

Ave Vel =706.8                                                                       
Std Dev =15.55                                                                       
ES=65.87                                                                                 
High=742.9                                                                             
Low=677                                                                                 
N =32

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Code:
Taurus M85 B2UL  2" Barrel                                                                             
                                                                                                                             

158 LSWC 3.5 grs Bullseye thrown, Mixed Brass WSP 11-Dec-04 T = 54 F

Ave Vel =                               686.3                                                                        
Std Dev =                               13.63                     
ES                                           58.48                   
High                                        718.8                                                                       
Low                                        660.3                                                                       
N =                                         30                                                                             

shot little high and centered 

                                                                    

158 LRN  Master Factory Ammo 30-Dec-04  T = 56 F

Ave Vel =                               698.2                                                                        
Std Dev =                               20.56                   
ES                                           105.8                   
High                                        753.5                   
Low                                        647.6                                                                       
N =                                         32

shot 6" high centered,until barrel leaded
                                                                                                                                

158 LSWC 3.5 grs Bullseye Mixed brass Fed 100 30-Dec-04  T = 56 F

Ave Vel = 706.2                                                                        
Std Dev = 23.45                                                                        
ES    81.94                                                                        
High  748                                                                            
Low   666.1                                                                       
N =  32


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Code:
S&W M638-3 Airweight Bodyguard  2" barrel                                                   
  
148 LWC Lead 2.7 grs Bullseye thrown Mixed Brass WSP                                   

18-Mar-07 T = 52 °F                                                                                                 
Ave Vel =611.6                                                                               
Std Dev =22.04                                                                               
ES=75.92                                                                                          
High=648.1                                                                                      
Low=572.2                                                                                       
N =25                                                                                               

little high                                                                                                                   


158 LSWC 3.5 grs Bullseye Mixed brass WSP                                                       
18-Mar-07 T = 52 °F                                                                                                 

Ave Vel =611.1                                                                               
Std Dev =9.64                                                                                 
ES=28.05                                                                                         
High=626.3                                                                                      
Low=598.3                                                                                       
N =32                                                                                               

4-6" High accurate


18EWF3N.jpg


Code:
S&W M637-2  2" barrel

158 LRN 3.5 grs Bullseye WSP Mixed cases                           
6-Apr-07 T = 48 °F                                                                                                               

Ave Vel =679                                                                                                             
Std Dev =16.48                                                                                                           
ES 56.11                                                                                                                     
High 698.2                                                                                                                   
Low 642                                                                                                                       
N = 18                                                                                                                         

125 Lead BBRNFP 4.0 grs Bullseye Lot BE 532 Mixed cases CCI 500                  
6-Apr-07 T = 48 °F                                                                                                               

Ave Vel =763.9                                                                                                         
Std Dev =22                                                                                                                 
ES78                                                                                                                             
High806.5                                                                                                                     
Low728.5                                                                                                                     
N =15                                                                                                                           

Point aim OK                                                                                                                       


125 Lead BBRNFP 4.0 grs Bullseye Mixed cases WSP          
9-Apr-06 T = 59 °F                                                                                                               

Ave Vel =760.4                                                                                                         
Std Dev =27.33                                                                                                           
ES =82.1                                                                                                                     
High  =798.9                                                                                                               
Low  =716.8                                                                                                                 
N =19                                                                                                                           

125 Lead BBRNFP 4.5 grs Bullseye Mixed cases WSP          
9-Apr-06 T = 64 °F                                                                                                               

Ave Vel =                                           827.9                                                                         
Std Dev =                                           23.21                                                                         
ES =                                                    92.27                                                                         
High  =                                                879.4                                                                         
Low  =                                                787.1                                                                         
N =                                                      20


nQ5kk1P.jpg


Code:
4" S&W M10-5   

148 LWC Valiant  2.7grs Bullseye W/W cases WSP 
19-Apr-09 T ≈  60-65 ° F  

Ave Vel = 696.2   
Std Dev = 12.04   
ES = 48   
High  = 721.3   
Low  = 673.3   
N = 32   

 v accurate, about 2" low, no leading, mild recoil
 

158 LRN Valiant  3.5grs Bullseye Mixed cases WSP 
19-Apr-09 T ≈  60-65 ° F  


Ave Vel = 758   
Std Dev = 22.86   
ES = 100.9   
High  = 810.5   
Low  = 709.5   
N = 32   

158 LRN  3.5grs Bullseye Mixed cases WSP  Gamma Chrony
5-Aug-06 T = 100 °F  

Ave Vel = 796   
Std Dev = 13.89    
ES = 55.24    
High  = 813    
Low  = 757.9    
N = 23    


158 LRN  3.5grs Bullseye Mixed cases WSP 
22-Dec-07 T = 52 °F  

Ave Vel = 768.6   
Std Dev = 15.58    
ES = 48.52    
High = 787.6    
Low = 739.1    
N = 18    


125 Valiant BBRNFP 4.0 grs Bullseye Mixed cases WSP
9-Apr-06 T = 59 °F  

Ave Vel = 863.4   
Std Dev = 30   
ES = 70.78   
High  = 907.5    
Low  = 836.7    
N = 6   

Windage centered accurate  

Elevation at least 4" low

 

125 Valiant BBRNFP 4.5 grs Bullseye Mixed cases WSP
9-Apr-06 T = 64 °F  
 

Ave Vel = 945.6   
Std Dev = 27.28   
ES = 75.21   
High  = 995.2    
Low  = 920    
N = 6   

Windage centered accurate  

Elevation at least 4" low



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If you are man enough, have the pocket space, and want the power, how about packing a cannon?

Go retro!

qjV58iP.jpg

that's the barrel weight, the carrage adds a bit more

L5XXOzu.jpg

Or, the modern and sleek, 5 incher

6Z7NRRo.jpg

might need something to put under it, may I suggest a Fletcher Class destroyer?

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Slamfire...Your revolvers look very clean. Any issues with flame cutting on the forward top strap?
 
Slamfire...Your revolvers look very clean. Any issues with flame cutting on the forward top strap?

Just looked at the Airweights and a Colt DS. Can't see a cut under the leading. I have not shot my Airweights as extensively as my M10-5, and that pistol has tens of thousands of rounds, and it is steel frame. Was unable to see a clear flame cut on the top strap, what is under the frame is lead.
 
In a 2" snubbie, I found 158 grain bullets to be heavier than what I like. With a 4", it's a different story. I found that I like 125 and even 110 grain bullets in short barrel 38 Spls.
 
3.5gr of Titegroup Group with a 125gr or 158gr plated or lead bullet is my favorite plinking load. I can run them all day in my air weight 638 and accuracy is great
 
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