Resizing revolver brass
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Bandit67
Member
The whole case.
243winxb
Member
Tried neck sizing, not for me. I size with the thickness of a nickel between shell holder and die.
Carbide dies should NOT contact the shell holder.
Carbide dies should NOT contact the shell holder.
Why not? And if so, then what does the press stop on?
243winxb
Member
Old RCBS instruction say it may crack the carbide ring.
New RCBS instructions -
https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/help-with-a-rcbs-3-die-44mag-set.818532/
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375supermag
Member
Hi...
I have always sized the whole case.
Always have used carbide sizing dies and always use RCBS dies...after many thousands of cartridges resized, I have never damaged a carbide sizing ring.
I have always sized the whole case.
Always have used carbide sizing dies and always use RCBS dies...after many thousands of cartridges resized, I have never damaged a carbide sizing ring.
tightgroup tiger
Member
I use Redding dual ring dies for the calibers that they offer that I load for. They are the compromise for the coke bottle effect you see with single ring dies but they are expensive and aren't offered in anything but the most common calibers.
They keep the body of the case more to the size of factory brass and only neck size the case for full effect. (neck tension).
It kind of sounds like that's what you are thinking about.
I tried just neck sizing brass for in my revolvers but they are to close to the same size as the chamber that they have to be perfect to slide in there.
The dual ring Redding die fits the chamber and centers the rounds really well but don't try to use those rounds with a speed loader. You will be disappointed.
They won't fall right in there like single ring resized brass does because single ring die resized brass is actually undersized down through the body.
If you are just target shooting and loading for the calibers that Redding offers this die for you may want to check them out.
I bought this die because the indoor range I was shooting at didn't allow reloads. My loads with this die, in factory boxes, fooled everyone there.
These .357mag loads are with 158gr bullets, that are what the Redding .357mag dual ring die is calibrated for, to get this look. Those dies are $103.00 each and if you want to load 38 Spl than you have to spend another $103.00 to buy that die.
If you want to just raise your resizing die up to just neck size the case your loading, the body will be oversized even more and will be even harder to get to fall in the chamber. They will go in the chamber with no problem, I used to do this before I bought this die.
With low pressure loads you can get away with it easily.
With high pressure loads you will have to spend the $103.00 for Reddings dual ring die or just use the single ring die you have been using right along and not worry about.
Single sized dies have been used for over 100 years to size our brass and with the single ring carbide die, it got even easier.
Personally, I really like the Redding dual ring sizing dies but they are only made in about 5 or 6 calibers and won't accommodate all different weight bullets that are out there for each caliber. With .357mag, only 158 gr and up will look this perfect.
I can't say those loads are any more accurate than my single ring die loads are, I can't shoot well enough off hand to tell. A Ransom Rest may show something but I doubt it.
They do make me happy to look at them and that means a little bit, but in the larger scheme of things, in my opinion, it's all cosmetic.
They keep the body of the case more to the size of factory brass and only neck size the case for full effect. (neck tension).
It kind of sounds like that's what you are thinking about.
I tried just neck sizing brass for in my revolvers but they are to close to the same size as the chamber that they have to be perfect to slide in there.
The dual ring Redding die fits the chamber and centers the rounds really well but don't try to use those rounds with a speed loader. You will be disappointed.
They won't fall right in there like single ring resized brass does because single ring die resized brass is actually undersized down through the body.
If you are just target shooting and loading for the calibers that Redding offers this die for you may want to check them out.
I bought this die because the indoor range I was shooting at didn't allow reloads. My loads with this die, in factory boxes, fooled everyone there.
These .357mag loads are with 158gr bullets, that are what the Redding .357mag dual ring die is calibrated for, to get this look. Those dies are $103.00 each and if you want to load 38 Spl than you have to spend another $103.00 to buy that die.
If you want to just raise your resizing die up to just neck size the case your loading, the body will be oversized even more and will be even harder to get to fall in the chamber. They will go in the chamber with no problem, I used to do this before I bought this die.
With low pressure loads you can get away with it easily.
With high pressure loads you will have to spend the $103.00 for Reddings dual ring die or just use the single ring die you have been using right along and not worry about.
Single sized dies have been used for over 100 years to size our brass and with the single ring carbide die, it got even easier.
Personally, I really like the Redding dual ring sizing dies but they are only made in about 5 or 6 calibers and won't accommodate all different weight bullets that are out there for each caliber. With .357mag, only 158 gr and up will look this perfect.
I can't say those loads are any more accurate than my single ring die loads are, I can't shoot well enough off hand to tell. A Ransom Rest may show something but I doubt it.
They do make me happy to look at them and that means a little bit, but in the larger scheme of things, in my opinion, it's all cosmetic.
The press just runs out of movement or cams over. Not a big deal if every case isn't sized exactly the same as long as it is sized under where the bullet seats. I size enough so it doesn't leave any bulge above the case head, but not so much it is trying to squeeze the case head, if that makes sense. I doubt it makes much difference how far we size the case as long as we size past where the bullet seats.
I know I am not good enough to shoot the difference if there is one. Same for "neck" sizing revolver brass, I can't take advantage if there is one. Ross Sefried played with neck sizing revolver rounds a long time ago, and some revolver shooters will tell you one chamber is the most accurate sometimes.
That must be something specific to certain presses. I don't think my press even cams over. If I don't stop it with a die, it stops on the nut that holds the shell plate on. I'm pretty sure that little nut would be easier to crack than a die.
I'm still not sure where the idea that carbide dies should not contact the shell holder comes from. The RCBS instructions read, "...until the die touches the top of the shell holder..."
Lee's instructions read: "Screw the full length sizer in until it touches the shell holder."
I'm still not sure where the idea that carbide dies should not contact the shell holder comes from. The RCBS instructions read, "...until the die touches the top of the shell holder..."
Lee's instructions read: "Screw the full length sizer in until it touches the shell holder."
243winxb
Member
Use your Lee die instructions, not RCBS.
ReloaderFred
Member
Carbide is brittle and will crack if struck by the shellholder. Maybe not the first time, but eventually it will, because I did it many, many years ago. Also, don't drop a carbide die on a concrete floor, for the same reason. The carbide ring will shatter into several pieces, even though it's pressed into the steel body of the die.
As for the OP, I always full length size for handgun brass, and I load between 12,000 and 15,000 rounds of it per year.
Hope this helps.
Fred
As for the OP, I always full length size for handgun brass, and I load between 12,000 and 15,000 rounds of it per year.
Hope this helps.
Fred
earlthegoat2
Member
I read those Lee instructions around 2004 and I will run my die down until it just touches the shel holder and then back it off 1/2 turn.
I size the whole case of hand gun cartridges.
I've noticed on some newer production carbide sizer dies, the carbide ring is is recessed a little from the end of the steel portion of the die. I guess in theory, you could have the shell holder contact the base of the die and not damage the carbide ring.
But, I'm still old school so I do not allow the shell holder contact the base of a carbide sizing die when sizing a case. I find that with no case in the shell holder, I set the die to kiss the bottom of the shell holder. Then, when resizing a case, I make sure I see a sliver of daylight between the shell holder and the base of the die.
Different carbide sizer dies from different manufacturers and from different eras have different radius or chamfer at the base of the carbide ring. This has an effect on how much of the base of the case gets resized. We are not talking much difference, but there is some difference.
I've noticed on some newer production carbide sizer dies, the carbide ring is is recessed a little from the end of the steel portion of the die. I guess in theory, you could have the shell holder contact the base of the die and not damage the carbide ring.
But, I'm still old school so I do not allow the shell holder contact the base of a carbide sizing die when sizing a case. I find that with no case in the shell holder, I set the die to kiss the bottom of the shell holder. Then, when resizing a case, I make sure I see a sliver of daylight between the shell holder and the base of the die.
Different carbide sizer dies from different manufacturers and from different eras have different radius or chamfer at the base of the carbide ring. This has an effect on how much of the base of the case gets resized. We are not talking much difference, but there is some difference.
243winxb
Member
I try to eliminate endplay using standard carbide dies by not sizing down as far as possible. The unsized brass will expand to the chamber on firing, centering the case head in the chamber. Works better with my 357 then the 44 mag. Not all tolerances are the same. May appear as a bulge.
Works with the 45 acp if not over done.
Endplay on the bullet end may be helped a little, maybe, if the homecast swc forward ring is larger .360" then the bullets body .358" diameter. Almost impossible to reach the tight throat with a swc. The full wadcutter can be set into the cylinder throat, with an extra long OAL. The 44 mag chamber throat is closer then the 357.
The 45 acp lswc will eliminate endplay with the bullet lightly into the rifling. Works for short throat barrels and slow fire only.
Helps accuracy shooting precision pistol at 50 yards and revolvers to 100 yds for me.
A lot of the old carbide dies had the carbide insert flush with the bottom of the die and it could get pressure on it, but all the new ones I have seen have the insert protected by being up in the die body a bit these days and only the steel body hits the shell holder/plate.
One that is flush.
Sizer on left has insert flush, FCD on right has insert up in die body a hair.
I can get pics of others later, but this is what I have without breaking out the camera.
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Legionnaire
Contributing Member
Whole case.
lightman
Member
I'm another that sizes the whole case. I adjust steel dies to touch the shell holder and carbide dies to not quite touch the shell holder. Because the instructions say to! I always thought I got better results with steel dies but I use carbide, if available, because of convenience. I've traded most of my older carbide dies for newer ones because the newer ones have a larger radius on the mouth. Being slightly recessed is a bonus too.
Blue68f100
Member
I full length size too with carbide dies, or TiNi, all have the insert recessed. I think it was more of a tolerance issue during mfg, some did some did not. But with handgun you normally run them down till they touched and stop. You don't add the extra rotation like you do bottle neck cartridges, moving the shoulder back.
Man, you guys talking about old dies need to consider the fact that questions like this are overwhelmingly likely to come from newer reloaders, and a lot of the newer dies are expressly designed to be installed all the way down into contact with the shell holder. For instance, here is a direct quote from Lee's instructions for their modern pistol dies:
If you leave most modern pistol sizing dies not touching the shell holder, you will get cases that cannot fit a sizing gauge and that will not fit (or at least get sticky in) a tight chamber. I have sized several hundred thousand (at least) straight-walled pistol cartridges with modern sizing dies. Except for instances in which I have made a mistake or let the die back out, all of them have been with the die touching the holder at the end of the travel/top of the stroke.
This thread is right up there with advice to lube pistol brass "unless you've got a carbide die," when nobody under the age of 60 has ever even touched a non-carbide pistol die.
- Screw the full length sizer in until it touches the shell holder and tighten the lock ring finger tight. (https://leeprecision.com/cgi-data/instruct/Pistol4.pdf)
- To adjust the full-length size die, follow these steps: 1. Raise the press ram to highest position. 2. Thread the full-length die into the press until the base touches the shell holder head. 3. Tighten the lock ring against the press and tighten the set screw with the allen wrench.
If you leave most modern pistol sizing dies not touching the shell holder, you will get cases that cannot fit a sizing gauge and that will not fit (or at least get sticky in) a tight chamber. I have sized several hundred thousand (at least) straight-walled pistol cartridges with modern sizing dies. Except for instances in which I have made a mistake or let the die back out, all of them have been with the die touching the holder at the end of the travel/top of the stroke.
This thread is right up there with advice to lube pistol brass "unless you've got a carbide die," when nobody under the age of 60 has ever even touched a non-carbide pistol die.
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doubleh
Member
I have used carbide dies for years and have had no issues. I adjust them the way the maker says to in their little manual that comes with the dies.
Talking about "carbide pistol dies" is like talking about "unleaded gasoline." If you're talking about some antique gear, the distinction is relevant. For anyone who's actually buying or using gear made in the last couple of decades, they're all carbide and all the gasoline cars run on unleaded.
FROGO207
Member
In theory if you raise the ram and adjust the die till it just touches, when you resize the case without camming over there will be a small space between the die and shell holder. The thickness of a business card usually. This is what I do even with my older carbide dies and have never broken one yet. This is the way I size all my brass using carbide dies. YMMV
With respect to those instructions not to "strike" the die, I can only imagine there is a distinction between striking and touching or that the die design and instructions have changed. In any event, I could not find any similar instruction in Lee's documentation.
Here's a curious thing about the Lee Carbide Factory Crimp die, which is also a full-length resizing die. The example I have, in addition to roll crimping, resizes the finished cartridge with a carbide ring. The instructions for it are to screw it down until it touches the shell holder, and then screw it in another half turn. So it would seem it is certainly designed to touch the shell plate with some force despite being a carbide resizing die.
Here's a curious thing about the Lee Carbide Factory Crimp die, which is also a full-length resizing die. The example I have, in addition to roll crimping, resizes the finished cartridge with a carbide ring. The instructions for it are to screw it down until it touches the shell holder, and then screw it in another half turn. So it would seem it is certainly designed to touch the shell plate with some force despite being a carbide resizing die.
Die adjustment for straight walled revolver cases is far less critical than for auto cases. At any rate, the heck with any instructions that say screw it to 'here" and back off "x". Adjust the die so it does what you need it to do.
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