Just finished resizing a couple hundred pieces of Win and FC 243 brass and noticed about a dozen split necks after resizing the brass. I didn't notice the necks split until after running the brass through the resizing die but it is possible they were split before resizing. The only reason I assume the necks split during resizing is that I noticed it took more effort to resize the neck portion of the brass then it did when using corn and walnut to clean the brass. I'm afraid the pins are dinging the mouth of the case enough to cause the necks to split. Anyone else cleaning with pins have problems with necks splitting?
More Split Necks Since Switching To Pins For Cleaning Brass
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NeuseRvrRat
Member
how many times have the cases been reloaded?
both WIN and FC splitting or mostly just one of the headstamps?
both WIN and FC splitting or mostly just one of the headstamps?
rcmodel
Member in memoriam
I really doubt the cleaning method has anything to do with it.
Todays once fired brass seem to split more often then I ever remember the old cases from years ago doing. Cause I don't remember them ever splitting until they were worn out from multiple reload cycles.
I think it is more a quality issue today more then anything else.
rc
Todays once fired brass seem to split more often then I ever remember the old cases from years ago doing. Cause I don't remember them ever splitting until they were worn out from multiple reload cycles.
I think it is more a quality issue today more then anything else.
rc
I think you may be right. I've had big problems with once fired 22-250 Win brass splitting before ever being reloaded (or cleaned). I picked up 100 new 22-250 Win after loading 50 of them once, found 6 had split necks. It makes sense they make the brass fail quickly, that way they sell more ammo and brass.
NeuseRvrRat
Member
I, too, have had a lot of brass split after a single firing. i bought brand new winchester brass, prepped and loaded it, and it split after the first firing. the ones that survived the first firing have 5 or 6 loadings on them now. it's strange.
i haven't noticed more split necks since going to wet tumbling with SS pins.
^my experience was with 22-250 as well
i haven't noticed more split necks since going to wet tumbling with SS pins.
^my experience was with 22-250 as well
pcf
Member
If anything steel pins will peen the case mouth, eliminate stress leaders and prevent splits.
It could be poor QC or your just having a run of bad luck with cases.
It could be poor QC or your just having a run of bad luck with cases.
FROGO207
Member
I have not noticed any difference in case longevity after switching to wet tumbling with SS media. I do know that 22-250 brass has a hard life as it is and will often fail after 2-3 reload cycles for me but other bottle necked brass does last substantially longer. Tell me about ANYTHING that is as good as the older version was.:banghead: JMHO
blarby
Member
I had a lot of neck splits from warm loads in FC brass....s'why I stopped using it.
Its hard, and brittle..it doesn't like reloading as much as some.
As to the win.you got me there, I love it because it don't split.
If you are getting it on both, from one reload, something is amiss...........and it isn't your pins, unless you are using a really strong acid in the mix.
What you could be missing is the residual fine lubricants on the case necks that you used to have in tumbling with CC and others.....even fine dust can act as a lube.
You won't get that from the pins.
Try lubing your case necks on the next batch before resizing.
Its hard, and brittle..it doesn't like reloading as much as some.
As to the win.you got me there, I love it because it don't split.
If you are getting it on both, from one reload, something is amiss...........and it isn't your pins, unless you are using a really strong acid in the mix.
What you could be missing is the residual fine lubricants on the case necks that you used to have in tumbling with CC and others.....even fine dust can act as a lube.
You won't get that from the pins.
Try lubing your case necks on the next batch before resizing.
It may have helped, but I didn't notice the splits until after I had already resized the brass. I didn't even consider that once fired brass from Winchester and Federal might need annealing. The Win was new brass that I had reloaded and fired once and the FC was once fired brass from commercial ammo. Never thought I would say that I prefer Privi Partizan better than Winchester, but after priming the remainder of this brass found another 7 pieces of Win that the primers were so loose I could push them out by hand. I used CCI primers in this brass and they were much tighter.
I've seen a lot of reports of splitting brass lately, or at least more reports than I used to see. Wild guess - the CQ has dropped off a bit lately as the manufacturers push to keep up with increased demand. I doubt if the cleaning method is involved.
Sport45
Member
I have no experience cleaning with SS, but I'd think if the cases were being peened that would add to the work hardening and make them more brittle.
That said, I don't think most rotary tumblers drop the brass and pins far enough for any peening action to be happening.
NeuseRvrRat
Member
yeah, there are videos of some with plexiglass lids and it's just a slow roll like a wave at the beach or something.
ArchAngelCD
Member.
Just a shot in the dark here, is it possible the constant impacts from the SS media somehow hardens the brass making it more susceptible to spiting?
zxcvbob
Member
In spite of what the folks selling tumbling media tell you, tumbling the brass with ss pins will work harden it. (jewelers actually tumble castings to harden them.) However, it should also stress relieve it which should help prevent cracks. I'm not sure how those two effects balance out.
Maybe the brass needs to be annealed?
Maybe the brass needs to be annealed?
Assuming the OP is wet tumbling with stainless steel pins, the water will cushion things a bit.
They used to use a real tumbler, not a vibrating cleaner, to clean cases in dry media and I do not remember anyone complaining about the action of the tumbler changing the cases and causing split necks in resizing. Now, the dry media will also cushion things a bit but you still have cases falling on each other.
Finally, if tumbling with stainless pins causes the necks to split when resizing, more folks would be having the problem. I suspect the cases are the issue or something else outside the cleaning step.
They used to use a real tumbler, not a vibrating cleaner, to clean cases in dry media and I do not remember anyone complaining about the action of the tumbler changing the cases and causing split necks in resizing. Now, the dry media will also cushion things a bit but you still have cases falling on each other.
Finally, if tumbling with stainless pins causes the necks to split when resizing, more folks would be having the problem. I suspect the cases are the issue or something else outside the cleaning step.
rodregier
Member
Another possibility for new brass is that the mfgr are skimping on the neck annealing stage...
I think manufacturers have changed the brass formula in last few years.
I too have noticed much greater number of split neck after just one firing... about 6% with 22-250 where as 20 yards ago I would be surprised to fine one. It seems brass are more brittle now than in past.
I too have noticed much greater number of split neck after just one firing... about 6% with 22-250 where as 20 yards ago I would be surprised to fine one. It seems brass are more brittle now than in past.
Here's another hypothesis.
SS pins clean the inside of the case mouth/neck. If you don't lube the inside of the case neck, properly, this increases case mouth stretch during the expanding stage. This is where you get the increased work hardening.
Everyone who uses SS pins swears up and down that squeaky clean brass doesn't affect the expander/flaring stage and doesn't require any lube for pistol brass. But that has not been my experience.
IME, running several hundred SS cleaned cases through my expander die usually results in some sticking and galling without periodic cleaning and lubing. Maybe not every case needs lube, but it sure helps to lube every fourth case or so. This occurred with both 9mm and 45ACP cases, using polished Lee dies.
IME, I can run dry tumbled pistol cases indefinitely without any lube.
IME, I can size dry tumbled .223 cases for my semiauto forever without any inside neck lube, and they will suffer case head separation before the neck splits. I have yet to see a split case mouth on any of my reloads in any caliber.
SS pins clean the inside of the case mouth/neck. If you don't lube the inside of the case neck, properly, this increases case mouth stretch during the expanding stage. This is where you get the increased work hardening.
Everyone who uses SS pins swears up and down that squeaky clean brass doesn't affect the expander/flaring stage and doesn't require any lube for pistol brass. But that has not been my experience.
IME, running several hundred SS cleaned cases through my expander die usually results in some sticking and galling without periodic cleaning and lubing. Maybe not every case needs lube, but it sure helps to lube every fourth case or so. This occurred with both 9mm and 45ACP cases, using polished Lee dies.
IME, I can run dry tumbled pistol cases indefinitely without any lube.
IME, I can size dry tumbled .223 cases for my semiauto forever without any inside neck lube, and they will suffer case head separation before the neck splits. I have yet to see a split case mouth on any of my reloads in any caliber.
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I have not experienced sticking of the hand gun mouth expander, but then I clean the cases, whether by a wet or dry process, after resizing and expanding the case mouths.
With bottle neck cases, I always use a little bit of lubricant inside the case mouth, even with carbide expander buttons.
LiveLife
Member
Here's a simple way to test your theories. Take a new batch of factory new or once fired brass and:
1. Have a control group of cases that you just wipe clean with towel.
2. Wet tumble another group of cases with SS media.
3. If you have a vibratory tumbler, do another group using walnut/corn cob media.
If the control group or dry tumbled cases do not split as quickly as wet tumbled cases, wet tumbling is the culprit. If they split as quckly, then the brass is suspect.
1. Have a control group of cases that you just wipe clean with towel.
2. Wet tumble another group of cases with SS media.
3. If you have a vibratory tumbler, do another group using walnut/corn cob media.
If the control group or dry tumbled cases do not split as quickly as wet tumbled cases, wet tumbling is the culprit. If they split as quckly, then the brass is suspect.
gpb
Member
I agree with bds post #24
"One test is worth a thousand expert opinions"
"One test is worth a thousand expert opinions"
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