Modifying CMP 1911s

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wojownik

wojownik

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So, had a few local discussions about these CMP 1911s, and just saw a post on the their forum which really got me going. I'm hearing everything from just update their CMP 1991A1 with a commander hammer, to wanting to cerakote and replace parts with modern spares.

So, yeah, I know ... it's their gun now and they can do what they like with it. But it really strikes me as kind of a waste by taking a spot in the lottery from someone who may well have respected the pistol as-is as a bit of history.

I just don't get the logic.
 
Someone buys a highly collectible pistol and wants to immediately start modifying it to make it worthless? :eek:

Whoever this is, what they ought to do, instead of messing up a rare collectable pistol, is to sell the thing and buy something cheaper that has all the features they want.

Friend could buy one of these RIA , for around $450, and muck it up with modifications..

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NIGHTLORD40K said:
Methinks you are trying to make sense of the senseless.
Click to expand...

^^^ I guess that's what it boils down to.

I did as suggested below - I picked up a Springfield GI model and replaced the thumb safety, trigger, and grip safety with GI parts. A pseudo Ithaca clone, at a very affordable price.

I just read another comment about someone planning to shoot their CMP 1911 until it can't shoot anymore (whatever that means), instead of using their precious Ruger. What in the actual heck?!? Some of these guys seem to be viewing these like used junk guns, to be used to spare their modern 1911s.

Slamfire said:
Someone buys a highly collectible pistol and wants to immediately start modifying it to make it worthless? :eek:

Whoever this is, what they ought to do, instead of messing up a rare collectable pistol, is to sell the thing and buy something cheaper that has all the features they want.

Friend could buy one of these RIA , for around $450, and muck it up with modifications..

View attachment 863435
View attachment 863436
Click to expand...
 
Wow. And we wonder why pristine, or even average condition, WWII era guns that are unaltered command such prices. Back when they were a dime a dozen, sporterizing mil surps wasn't such an issue. Now that the well's pretty much run dry I will agree that it's a shame to see the ones that are still remaining in an as-issued state get butchered.

However, let them do what they'll do since it's theirs to do with what they want. If you have a CMP 1911 in unaltered condition I'll say go ahead and hope more people do wreck theirs... since yours will be worth that much more to a discerning buyer later on. :thumbup:

Stay safe.
 
I would be happy to buy that guy a brand new SA milspec that he could tinker with all he likes, and take that old gun off his hands. I already have a GI 1911 and a 1911A1- I just don't want that guy to mess his up.
 
I'm in agreement - it's theirs to do with whatever they want, however unless they wanted it as a collectible it would have been easier and cheaper to just go buy a brand new production Colt.
 
Wow, that's just crazy. CMP 1911's are running, what, about a grand, right?

You can get a RIA or ATI for about $300, give or take. Latest thing is now you can get a Tisas again, same price. So for about the same expense, you can get 3 brand new guns, 2 at least with good warranties, to tinker around with; or buy one older surplus gun that primary value lies in what it is.

I don't get it.
 
Yeah, that makes zero sense.

It's like searching for years and paying a big premium to get a numbers-matching Shelby Cobra... just to chop it, add curb effects, re-work the fenders, etc. etc., when there are kit cars available for about 2% of the price that you could use for the base. Zero sense.
 
ATLDave said:
Yeah, that makes zero sense.
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Sadly, there are all too many societal ills to which we can apply this apt expression.

Perhaps it's a reflection of a general ignorance of history that prevents having a suitable reverence for same.

Does smack of finding a well-kept 57 BelAir in factory paint, and chopping as a leadsled or low-rider.

But, it's not really new, I can remember a Singer modified into a "race gun," and not just a little, but the whole nine yards.
 
Doesnt bother me. They could have wanted it specifically for the roll marks. Tons of pristine classic Colts are customized with that as a reason
Your not going to get that with some cheap import. etc.
 
I say let them modify to their heart's content. For every one that gets ruined (collector value) it makes all the others more valuable.
 
Many current CMP 1911s are mismatched parts gun. Do you really want a Colt slide on a Rem Rand frame? Save your $$

The guns will be in four grades:

Service Grade $1050. Pistol may exhibit minor pitting and wear on exterior surfaces and friction surfaces. Grips are complete with no cracks. Pistol is in issuable condition.

Field Grade $950. Pistol may exhibit minor rust, pitting, and wear on exterior surfaces and friction surfaces. Grips are complete with no cracks. Pistol is in issuable condition.

Rack Grade $850. Pistol will exhibit rust, pitting, and wear on exterior surfaces and friction surfaces. Grips may be incomplete and exhibit cracks. Pistol requires minor work to return to issuable condition.

Auction Grade (Sales will to be determined by auctioning the pistol). The condition of the auction pistol will be described when posted for auction.

It should be noted that the grade is close to, if not under, current market prices for U.S. military 1911s. For example, the current Blue Book value of a Remington-Rand made 1911– the most common maker who cranked out more than a million such pistols in WWII– is listed as $900 in 60 percent condition.
 
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When I was issued my 1911A1, I am pretty sure it was a "mismatched parts gun" (and woe unto me if I had called my sidearm a "gun"). When my dad was issued his 1911 by the Army in the 1960s, pretty sure that would have been a mismatched parts gun. Ditto with my uncles in the Army and Marines (Korea). Pretty sure the only persons in my family who got an original all-matching 1911 were my grandfather, who was issued one just before WW1, and likely my uncle in WW2 (Army).

Point being - these CMP 1911s are mismatched "parts" pistols, just as they were placed into storage by Uncle Sam, and just as they were transferred to CMP. From the date of their issuance in WW1 and WW2, these 1911s had been rebuilt many times - and the "mismatched parts gun" may well have served in any or all of WW2, Korea, Vietnam ..

Maybe I'm just too attached to the topic, since pretty much every male in my family from 1916 through the early 1980s was issued a 1911, and most carried into combat. These mixmasters had likely seen service somewhere, sometime over the past decades. Just think they deserve a little more respect than to be cerakoted, "updated" and otherwise bubba-ized.

243winxb said:
Many current CMP 1911s are mismatched parts gun. Do you really want a Colt slide on a Rem Rand frame? Save your $$

The guns will be in four grades:

Service Grade $1050. Pistol may exhibit minor pitting and wear on exterior surfaces and friction surfaces. Grips are complete with no cracks. Pistol is in issuable condition.

Field Grade $950. Pistol may exhibit minor rust, pitting, and wear on exterior surfaces and friction surfaces. Grips are complete with no cracks. Pistol is in issuable condition.

Rack Grade $850. Pistol will exhibit rust, pitting, and wear on exterior surfaces and friction surfaces. Grips may be incomplete and exhibit cracks. Pistol requires minor work to return to issuable condition.

Auction Grade (Sales will to be determined by auctioning the pistol). The condition of the auction pistol will be described when posted for auction.

It should be noted that the grade is close to, if not under, current market prices for U.S. military 1911s. For example, the current Blue Book value of a Remington-Rand made 1911– the most common maker who cranked out more than a million such pistols in WWII– is listed as $900 in 60 percent condition.
Click to expand...
 
If everyone could have as many as they wanted there would be no collectible value. We accept plenty of posts about already lightly sporterized milsurps and congratulate the guys who “get them back to shooting” and I don’t see it as my concern.

I get there are only so many, that there are cheaper alternatives, I can empathize a bit even, but then as I never had a career in the military one could easily argue I have no business owning one and on and on. I’ll leave the pristine collectibles business to museums and the like and let alone the guy who chooses what to do with HIS firearms.
 
Slamfire said:
Someone buys a highly collectible pistol and wants to immediately start modifying it to make it worthless? :eek:

Whoever this is, what they ought to do, instead of messing up a rare collectable pistol, is to sell the thing and buy something cheaper that has all the features they want.
Click to expand...
They are not especially rare and my understanding is they are made up of whatever parts were available when they were rebuilt half a dozen times. The only reason they are collectible is because they are likely the last of the 1911s that will be sold off by the government. Other than that, they are not a big deal as far as I am concerned, and for the price you could get a much better shooter.
 
ilbob said:
They are not especially rare and my understanding is they are made up of whatever parts were available when they were rebuilt half a dozen times.
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I can't speak for the rarity, but I don't see many on the firing line. But they are expensive and they won't be getting any cheaper. And you are right about being rebuilt half a dozen times. The Program Manager who took the Beretta pistol program to downselect briefed my Gun Club on his lessons learned. One chart he had, the reliability of issue 1911's in the 1980's. They were breathtakingly bad. The inventory had been rebuilt so many times, with non conforming parts, that they were worn out and unreliable. Congress and the Military had kicked the can down the road to the point that 1911's had to be replaced. A shooting bud of mine remembers shooting an issue 1911 in the 1970's during his time in service. He said it would group on an eraser board, (about 4 foot by 6 foot) but that was about it.

Another shooting buddy, he was on a Divisional Pistol team. There were issued 1911's out of inventory. The Team Captain was a Marine who had been on the USMC Team, but there were no Armorer's. Team Captain told each member to grease up their 1911's, pack them full of grease, and fire 500 rounds. And "DO NOT CLEAN YOUR WEAPONS!!!" The crud in the grease tightened the pistols up to the point they would hold the black. And you know, if you as a Bullseye Shooter can hold the black, you will actually shoot decent scores. May not be Master Class, or Expert, but, Sharpshooter is not out of the question. Bullseye Pistol is about impossible. It is hard. Just hitting the black with a pistol that will hold two inches at 50 yards is an achievement.

In the 1980's I talked to the Rock Island Item Manager for the 1911. We were not making any, but the US was selling the things to foreign countries as military aid. The price at the time was $2.50 a pistol. I would have bought a bushel for that amount and come out ahead with parts sales.
 
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