Unusual ladder test results

Walkalong said:

Well, I was always into the lands.

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@Walkalong, when you load into the lands, is the bullet getting engraved, is it being set back into the case, is the case swelling, or a bit of all three? I've never intentionally loaded any ammunition that way but clearly it works when it works.

It’s been several years for me, but I can’t imagine it has changed - jamming is pretty common fare for BR. It’s pretty rare a guy would ever eject a loaded round. And it does SUCK if there is ever an order at the firing line which requires it - I used to try to balance my jam and neck tension so I knew I wouldn’t pull my bullet and dump powder in my action if I did have to eject one.

The bullet would be engraved, maybe not even noticeably by naked eye without soot, but not changing COAL. Definitely not enough neck tension to bulge the shoulder.

For PRS games, plinking, and hunting, I don’t jam, so I mess with a false shoulder to create my dimension for blowing out Dashers.

I just wish I had somewhere that I can hang paper targets @ 300 yards or beyond. I am on a waiting list for one shooting club about an hour from my house, that has a 300 yard paper range. That is also the longest range they have. I am a member at another club (same one as Domfather) that only has paper out to 100, but also has steel 500 and 1000 yard ranges. So, for now, about the only thing I can do is a pseudo OCW method.

I’ll admit - I’m becoming a BIG fan of the Satterlee Method, especially using a LabRadar. That’s after using Audette Ladders for over a decade.

I make these target boards that are easy to transport, perhaps a larger version for 1000 yards set next to those steel gongs.

Toprudder said:

I just wish I had somewhere that I can hang paper targets @ 300 yards or beyond. I am on a waiting list for one shooting club about an hour from my house, that has a 300 yard paper range. That is also the longest range they have. I am a member at another club (same one as Domfather) that only has paper out to 100, but also has steel 500 and 1000 yard ranges. So, for now, about the only thing I can do is a pseudo OCW method.

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Toprudder said:

I am a member at another club (same one as Domfather) that only has paper out to 100, but also has steel 500 and 1000 yard ranges. So, for now, about the only thing I can do is a pseudo OCW method.

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Satterlee method is happy at 100yrds and I’ve been finding myself more and more convinced it works exceptionally well.

For my new match rifle barrel, I have done nothing but Satterlee method at 100yrds and have a load shooting as small as anything I’ve ever developed, and just as consistent at 1,000yrds.

I really don’t even need a target in front of the rifle for Satterlee method, but I do kinda like seeing the results on target compared to the chronograph. I also shoot 3 cycles instead of just 1 round per charge. Honestly, I’be proven to myself I don’t need to shoot more than one, but I enjoy shooting, and going to the range to shoot more foulers than I need for load work just feels like a wasted trip.

I ran foulers only before the first 30rnd cycle on this barrel, followed by another 24rnd cycle to get my load where I needed it, then loaded enough to shoot two matches (suboptimal, but work travel dictated compromise). After those two matches, I ran another 24rnd cycle before the match I shot this wknd because I picked up 40fps between the two matches as my barrel worked in. I used .2grn increments between 41.0 and 42.4 and shot 3 rounds of each. The magnetospeed hanging on my Omega shifts my POI, which is fine, for the test. Fired round robin. The top row second from right is 41.6: 3102, 3100, and 3101, the top right is 41.8 and shot 3096, 3103, and 3100. So despite .2grn between them, they shot an ES of 7 for those six shots, and an SD of 3fps. I loaded up 150 at 41.7grn and shot a 10shot confirmation and zero at 3101fps, 3SD, 11ES, then shot a match and made 1st round impacts out to 985 (longest of the day), including a half MOA target at 460 and 2/2 on an IPSC at 958 (1.8moa). Nothing record setting, but certainly sufficient for the job at hand.

So that load had 54 rounds of load development to establish a node 41.6-41.9, shot two matches at 41.8grn, then another 24rnds of load confirmation (satterlee method) pictured below to make sure my node didn’t shift as the barrel sped up about 40fps during the first 250rnds. Now sitting at 400rnds on the tube, really only 54rounds of load development. The worst group on that page is .46moa. Shoots more than small enough for precision rifle games. I’ll take it.

South Prairie Jim said:

I make these target boards that are easy to transport, perhaps a larger version for 1000 yards set next to those steel gongs.

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That really isn't the issue at this range. Being that the range stays pretty busy (on any given day, they may have a half dozen people shooting on the 1000 yard line), they simply don't allow the range to go cold so someone can walk down to 1000 yards to set up targets. And it is a bit of a safety issue as well, due to the way the land is laid out. Some of the ranges actually cross, so everything has to go cold if any work is going on.

Toprudder said:

That really isn't the issue at this range. Being that the range stays pretty busy (on any given day, they may have a half dozen people shooting on the 1000 yard line), they simply don't allow the range to go cold so someone can walk down to 1000 yards to set up targets. And it is a bit of a safety issue as well, due to the way the land is laid out. Some of the ranges actually cross, so everything has to go cold if any work is going on.

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That’s understandable, even driving to the 1k steel takes a few minutes of cold range.

Varminterror said:

Satterlee method is happy at 100yrds and I’ve been finding myself more and more convinced it works exceptionally well.

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Once you found the velocity range, did you play with bullet jump at all? I'll be doing a similar workup this weekend for my 6.5x47mm Lapua. Most likely going to use Varget since it's temperature insensitive.

Bayourambler said:

View attachment 836292 View attachment 836293 View attachment 836294 My Dad and I are developing a long range load for his new Bergara B14 in 6.5 CM. I’ve come trust using my chrono and using the ladder test system, it seems to get me very close quickly. He prepped a few rounds with fed 210gm primers ,H4350 and 140 Eldm bullets. I set up cardboard at 300 yards to catch the hits and he shot .3 grain increments through the chrono. I recorded velocities and found a flat area in the 39 grain area. We loaded 4 rounds at 39.1 to shoot a group at 100 yds because the wind was about 10 mph. It shot great with good chrono numbers. .77 moa with a sd of 7.5 at 2700 fps. I can’t wait for a calm day to shoot this at 300 yards! The thing that I can’t understand is, how can there be so little verticle variation on such a wide range of velocities? It doesn’t make any sense. I’ve only done ladder tests maybe 10 times , but there always have been changes in impact at 300 yds. Any ideas how this happens?

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What’s your seating depth during this test ?

MCMXI said:

Once you found the velocity range, did you play with bullet jump at all? I'll be doing a similar workup this weekend for my 6.5x47mm Lapua. Most likely going to use Varget since it's temperature insensitive.

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Hey - sorry I missed getting back to you on this question, not sure how I missed that over the summer. But I received a new like tonight which pointed me back here, and finally noticed my negligence...

In this particular case, no, I didn’t tune seating depth. I’ve shot several thousand of the 105 Hybrids and know 2 things about them in fast 6mm’s: 1) they’re very forgiving of jump, and 2) my throat is going to burn away like a dumpster fire. I started 5 thousandths off of the lands with this barrel, only because I usually start 5-8 with the Hybrids, and in this chamber, that meant 2.785”, which is 2”, plus the common area code for most of Kansas, my home state. Easy to remember. If I were shooting benchrest, sure, I’d tweak seating depth and chase the lands, but for Precision Rifle games, consistent velocity and anything under 3/4moa is better than needed - so the fact this one was ~1/4-1/2moa was just gravy.

I was probably 500 rounds into the barrel in May when I made that post, it’s now just under 1500, and I would guess I’m jumping something near 100 thou! I haven’t shot a paper group in probably 450 rounds, but I shot the PRS Midwest Regional Finale last weekend and the targets were SMALL! I know on one stage, I hit 4 out of 4 on two 1/2 MOA targets at ~575 and ~640 yards (2 each), on an alternating TYL rack stage - so the rifle still shoots! Barrel’s coming off after deer season, start next year fresh again.

I wonder how @Bayourambler is doing with his load development?