Proper calibers for your game of choice.

Status
Not open for further replies.
Mossberg makes a patriot in 375 ruger, should be good for nilgai. From what I have heard and read they are nice rifles, and would save you some money if this is not going to be your primary rifle for elk and other game. Not sure what your budget is, but I would take a look at them.
 
huntinfool87 said:
I agree 110% I also think that a quartering away shot takes those bones out of the picture. I would love to use my .280 or .260 hell even my 257 wby.
Click to expand...

The bones aren’t any more in the way of the heart, it’s just that the leg (muscle) is in the way of the lungs because they don’t extend as far back. The heart is in the same spot relative to the leg. You can get away with shooting behind the leg instead of thru it on an elk because the lungs extend back further behind the leg muscle. If you look at the bone structures in those pics you can see the triangle the bones make is basically the same. You have to shoot elk thru the front leg to hit an elk heart too. Shooting thru leg is still more to shoot through than just ribs but it’s misleading when you look at their front legs. It looks like there should be bone. But as those anatomy pictures show, the bones make that V shape and it’s largely muscle covering the heart
 
huntinfool87 said:
How does it compare to a 300?
Click to expand...
Id rather shoot my 8lb .375 ruger with its squishy pad than 8.5lb .300 with a rubber butt plate....
No one has complained about how much recoil my rifle has yet, and its stock isnt designed to mitigate it in the least.
One guy DID cut his eye brow RIGHT after i switched to a longer eye relieve leupold....but that was the one bad experience.

IMO, Id probably be comfortable with anything that can get a bullet into the boiler room. BUT as you said its your buddies call, so If you WANT a 7mm WBY, by all means get that, you wont be LOOSING performance on any other of your current offerings.

If youd LIKE to try something like a .375 the patriot is the cheapest way to give it a shot. Id suggest getting either the laminate, or the wood stocked gun.
My abolt is heavier than the synthetic patriot, but lighter than the wood or laminate, add a squishy pad to the patriot and you should be good to go.
 
Something else that didint occur to me till just now about rules like this comes back to bullet construction....its WAY more likely youll get a heavy bullet, of harder construction in a 300+ magnum than you will in a lighter round on average. Just saying "bring a 300+" maybe easier than trying to explain not to bring a soft bullet to a bull swatting contest (which id totally do, but thats sorta my thing).
 
Last edited:
wankerjake said:
The bones aren’t any more in the way of the heart, it’s just that the leg (muscle) is in the way of the lungs because they don’t extend as far back. The heart is in the same spot relative to the leg. You can get away with shooting behind the leg instead of thru it on an elk because the lungs extend back further behind the leg muscle. If you look at the bone structures in those pics you can see the triangle the bones make is basically the same. You have to shoot elk thru the front leg to hit an elk heart too. Shooting thru leg is still more to shoot through than just ribs but it’s misleading when you look at their front legs. It looks like there should be bone. But as those anatomy pictures show, the bones make that V shape and it’s largely muscle covering the heart
Click to expand...
I think I'll have to disagree with this. When I killed my aoudad I had to punch through a very thick leg bone to get to that Hart. Also the nilgai does not only have its vitals further forward but their spine is a lot lower in the body. If you're referring to the picture in the comments please note* I did not post that and that is not a nilgai or an elk as stated in the comments.
 
I wouldn't know a nilgai from a wildebeest, but your buddy is doing you a solid: giving you an excuse to buy a new rifle. Whether it's 7 Mag, 35 Whelen, or 375 H&H, they'll all be usable on elk, so enjoy the search and happy hunting!
 
huntinfool87 said:
I think I'll have to disagree with this. When I killed my aoudad I had to punch through a very thick leg bone to get to that Hart. Also the nilgai does not only have its vitals further forward but their spine is a lot lower in the body. If you're referring to the picture in the comments please note* I did not post that and that is not a nilgai or an elk as stated in the comments.
Click to expand...

Right, the pictures are (I believe) an Eland and a whitetail deer. I’m with you, the photos should be good approximations though. The anatomy is all there, the big spine dip on the Eland, the anatomy of the leg bones relative to the heart. That forward V the leg bones make leaves a boneless target area (except ribs of course) to the heart and lungs open. It’s all tucked up way tighter though than on a deer or an elk for sure. You can’t get away with shots very much behind that leg like deer/elk.

If you hit a bone, which is of course possible especially quartering or just a couple inches in the right direction, you want to break it for sure.

And shot placement and bullet construction are more important conversations/requirements in my opinion than the cartridge requirements set forth in this case, for this animal
 
Last edited:
wankerjake said:
Right, the pictures are (I believe) an Eland and a whitetail deer. I’m with you, the photos should be good approximations though. The anatomy is all there, the big spine dip on the Eland, the anatomy of the leg bones relative to the heart. That forward V the leg bones make leaves a boneless target area (except ribs of course) to the heart and lungs open. It’s all tucked up way tighter though than on a deer or an elk for sure. You can’t get away with shots very much behind that leg like deer/elk.

If you hit a bone, which is of course possible especially quartering or just a couple inches in the right direction, you want to break it for sure.

And shot placement and bullet construction are more important conversations/requirements in my opinion than the cartridge requirements set forth in this case, for this animal
Click to expand...
Yes I agree. Shot placement is far more important than Cannon size! Lol
 
huntinfool87 said:
Yes I agree. Shot placement is far more important than Cannon size! Lol
Click to expand...

No question about it (shot placement). And IF your guide felt like you could 100% place your shot precisely (under all conditions that might present), he'd have you move to the front of the hump and down about 8"-10" for a high shoulder shot breaking the spine. But few of their clients are good enough for that.

Experienced guides/ranches in Texas aren't contesting that lesser cartridges in the right hands WILL cleanly kill the biggest, toughest Blue Bull, they are working on the be prepared for the 'worst case' scenario.

I have no doubt a competent and repeat customer who has proven himself...could talk them into letting them use something less powerful, BUT they have to deal with a variety of folks with varying skill levels and experience. They know what works (or helps). It is wise to follow their advice.
 
Last edited:
My rifle of choice for large animals is a Savage 99 in .308 shooting 180 grain Core-lokt ammo. The heaviest animal that I've ever taken was a bison bull during a hunt in South Dakota. I crawled to get within about 125 yards or so and aimed for the butt of the ear from a steady rest. At the shot the bull dropped in his tracks; his legs just folded. Another large animal taken with this outfit was a big bull moose during a hunt to Saskatchewan, Canada. Two quick shots into the chest organs did the job. What's my point? Aim for a vital organ(s) and wait for the right angle. I doubt if a nilgai can stand up to a shot through the chest organs. I favor the .308 cartridge but many others will perform well, too.

It's been my experience that a slower bullet will penetrate deeper than a high velocity one. If you like levers like I do, a 444 or 45-70 will meet your needs.

Good hunting to you!

TR
 
huntinfool87 said:
I agree 110% I also think that a quartering away shot takes those bones out of the picture. I would love to use my .280 or .260 hell even my 257 wby.
Click to expand...
I won't try to talk you out of the wby or a .375, but for magnum efficiency, if we're looking 7mm and more horsepower than the rem, is brass availability/factory support your reason for overlooking the stw? It's right up there too, but I'd 2nd a .375, if your .280 is ever "not enough" then I jump to the .375 ruger as well. Per the original topic, I've often been told I use cartridges too small by conventional standards, but due to proper choice of bullet construction and placement, my critters seem not to mind much.
 
horsey300 said:
I won't try to talk you out of the wby or a .375, but for magnum efficiency, if we're looking 7mm and more horsepower than the rem, is brass availability/factory support your reason for overlooking the stw? It's right up there too, but I'd 2nd a .375, if your .280 is ever "not enough" then I jump to the .375 ruger as well. Per the original topic, I've often been told I use cartridges too small by conventional standards, but due to proper choice of bullet construction and placement, my critters seem not to mind much.
Click to expand...
I know very little about the stw that's why I did not think about it. But could also be a viable option.
 
Call me crazy but looking at the blueprints of those critters has me thinking about a heavy hitter handgun round. 460, .480, .500... out of an 8inch barrel at a reasonable distance you are in good shape. Put it in a BFR or Freedom Arms so that you can go full power.

If the handgun doesn’t fit your fancy, then maybe a slightly different direction will. Old school smoothbores are undeniably brutal. I don’t think it would take a 4 bore to dump anything short of an elephant or rhino, but I don’t really know how small I would go either. 10ga with heavy slugs sounds like a winner though.

If a magnum rifle is the minimum though, I don’t see a point in stopping until your in the 375 range. You already have medium/large game covered well enough and realistically you have the Nilgai covered in the current rifles you mentioned. Might as well jump right on up to the low end of dangerous game rifles and have some fun with shoulder fired artillery pieces.
 
Nilgai are large and tough so something greater than your average deer load is required but you don't 'need' anything larger than your .280. Adding the word "magnum" doesn't make it magic and the 7mmMag has little over the .280. All it's going to do is shoot flatter and place more stress on the bullet. What you do need is a tough bullet. Something like the Partition or A-frame would do the job nicely.
 
I'm a 7mm fan, but since it's their requirements and you desire to go on this hunt; then buy a gun you must.

I'm not a magnum user, but if that were a requirement and you already have a 280, which is spitting distance to a 7mmRM. I don't think that I would get the 7mmRM. It just seems if they are going to require a magnum and that's the only time that I would use one then I would get some thing that fits a different niche than your 280 already fills. Personally, it would probably be a .300 WinMag or 375H&H as they load heavier bullets than the 7mmRM and is enough difference from the 280. But I could see myself rolling it over in my head and going with what I know and just getting a 7mmRM as well. Probably, doesn't help much.

What a silly requirement, I probably just wouldn't even go on the hunt, but that's just me.
 
Last edited:
Shoot a controlled expansion bullet with a sectional density of about 280 to 300. Use African style shot placement, aiming for the vital triangle and you’ll have no issues. If you shoot a blue bull behind the shoulder North American style you are going to have problems. Getting American hunters to properly shoot non North American game is a huge issue.

Think of trying to pop a basket ball that is located between the front legs/ shoulders and you won’t have any issues. Having a bullet/caliber combination that allows you to do that is the trick. There is no question that a .375 H&H or Ruger is up to the job. There is also no question that a .280 shooting a quality 160 or 175gr bullet bullet would do the job.

A .30-06 with a quality 180 to 200 gr bullet would also do the job nicely. A .300 mag is the same deal with a bit flatter trajectory.

The nice thing about a .375 is it vastly expands the ability to get to those vitals from various angles. My choice would be a .375 H&H or a Ruger, they are ballistic twins in reality, shooting a 270 Gr Barnes LRX bullets at a MV of 2700 to 2800 FPS. But I’ve been shooting .375’s for over 30 years and have killed hundreds of critters with them. I am completely comfortable with the fit, feel, and recoil of my .375’s.

I’d ask the outfitter if he’d consider letting you use your .280 shooting something like a 175gr Swift A-Frame or a Barnes TSX. Style bullet.
 
Last edited:
Never shot a Blue Bull but a close friend worked in India in the 50's and shot a semi-trailer load of them. He also took sambar, black buck, and leopard with the same gun. He shot a JC Higgins (FN Mauser) in 30-06 with 180gr Silvertips. I know you said that you didn't like that round but I can assure you, the game didn't either.
 
Me thinks it's possible that the outfitter rules are dictating. I've made long shots with a 270 and 3006 and both have done the job. Made some fair distant shots with 243.
Also possible there has been issues with past hunters which I think would be more of a placement issue. But bad placement survivability lessens as power increases.
 
skeeterfogger said:
Me thinks it's possible that the outfitter rules are dictating. I've made long shots with a 270 and 3006 and both have done the job. Made some fair distant shots with 243.
Also possible there has been issues with past hunters which I think would be more of a placement issue. But bad placement survivability lessens as power increases.
Click to expand...

I see the .300 mag or larger thing a lot on Nilgi hunts in Texas. It tells me the outfitter has had bad experiences but probably doesn’t understand bullet construction. Because I’d rather have guy shooting an 06 or a 280 with good bullets over a guy shooting a .300 with lousy bullets any day.
 
Loyalist Dave said:
This appears to be a case of "use a magnum" instead of understand your game animal.

Nilgai are Asian-Indian. They are not as large as North American Elk, and in fact North American Elk can run as much as 100 lbs. heavier. So why won't a very successful Elk cartridge such as the .35 Whelen not take a Nilgai with equal success?

It could be a shooter problem not a cartridge problem. ;)

All North American Cervids have pretty much the same locations for the organs in the vital area, and they are not well protected from a broadside shot. Now the Nilgai, being from India, matches the internal organ arrangement of large Asian animals..., and they are sufficiently different from their North American "relatives" to explain what's going on.

Notice how the heart is much better shielded from a 90 degree shot in the Nilgai. Note that the bone that will likely cause a problem is going be one of the largest, densest in that animal.
The dashed lines represent the leg on the opposite side. Note the heart is practically covered, AND the lungs are much farther forward than in the elk. Hit the large forward bones of the legs and you have a good chance of the bullet deflecting when it heads into the chest area, perhaps not doing nearly as much damage as it would to the elk...

View attachment 873333

Now here is the Elk by comparison..

View attachment 873341

There is a whole lot more lung open to being hit, and more of the heart as well. A broadside shot has an excellent chance of success on the larger Elk. So I think they use the magnums to smash through any large leg bone that gets in the way instead of taking other types of shots, that would damage the Nilgai for a clean, humane kill. They are compensating for the anatomy difference with physics instead of shot placement, it seems.

Case in point, John Forsyth wrote "The Sporting Rifle and Its Projectiles" in 1867, and it was based on his hunting in India...including hunting Nilgai. He recommended for deer sized game, that a hunter use a 14-bore rifle as a minimum...that's a .69 caliber ball. :confused: YET..., back here in North America, Elk were being harvested by 28 bore rifles...aka .54 ball rifles, and even the Corps of Discovery, six and a half decades earlier, had harvested a few Grizzly with that 224 grain .530 ball.

The difference for Forsyth in 1867 is probably the same difference now...you have to bash your way through that large leg bone. Today you have to do it with a magnum round, back in the day with a whopping big chunk of lead...., IF you use the same impact point for the bullet as you would on an Elk.;)

OR..., as I mentioned, perhaps take a shot at the animal when it's slightly quartered away from you, or take a shoulder shot. I'd predict when the angle was right, or the shoulder shot was used, and the hunter had a .35 Whelen with say a 250 grain round, soft nosed bullet, the Nilgai would go down as well as the biggest Elk. No magnum needed.

LD
Click to expand...
Loyalist Dave said:
Now here is the Elk by comparison..
Click to expand...
The Elk by comparison seems to be a White Tail deer
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

huntinfool87
  • Locked
my first aoudad hunt. how do i prepare?
Replies
9
Views
1K
BP Hunter
BP Hunter
huntinfool87
  • Locked
my free range texas aoudad hunt.
Replies
12
Views
1K
huntinfool87
huntinfool87
M
  • Locked
Stopping a Nilgai
2
Replies
42
Views
6K
Tradmark
T
S
  • Locked
Nilgai and Fusion Ammo?
Replies
6
Views
1K
scottfromdallas
S
M
  • Locked
Texas Elk Hunting
2
Replies
31
Views
2K
rodwha
R
Back
Top