Is it the barrel? (reloading related)

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Eddy19

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Back in the mid 90's when I was shooting high power rifle, after many matches, the group started opening up probably to about a 2 minute angle compared to when this rifle was new it used to pretty much do 1 minute. Nothing was changed. So, I wrote it off to the barrel just wearing out and left it at that. It was about the time I was tapering off of high power anyway because of family problems.

Just recently, I got out that rifle and began thinking, is there some other cause that would have caused the groups to start opening up, that perhaps it isn't barrel wear. Maybe I need to play with different loads, bullets, powders, etc.?

What are your thoughts? what else could it be besides barrel wear? (wishful thinking!)
Thanks!
 
The rifle is a Remington model 40x in 22-250 with Sierra 55 gr. and 34gr H4895. I would estimate probably at least 4000 rounds. It was suggested back then I have a Krieger barrel installed. I have another rifle I used, same amount of rounds through it, about the same story of groups opening up, a Winchester mod 70 heavy barrel in 308, Sierra 168 HPBT and H4895, think about 43grs.
 
I would take the rifles into a smith and have them look at the throats. If its throat erosion, they can just chop an inch from the barrel and rechamber. 22-250s are hot though, and hard on barrels. The 308 might clean up with just a cut/rechamber operation.
 
It can be as simple as copper fouling. A friend has a Winchester M70 in .270 and he told me he thought the barrel might be shot out. It's about 30 years old and while not shot a lot by some standards, it has been shot a good number of rounds since his dad gave it to him.

I gave him my bottle of copper cleaner to try and be said the gun shot like it was new again. Most times you can't see the fouling, it's shiny like the barrel. Give it a try, can't hurt. https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1014882885?pid=667226
 
Thanks for the suggestions, I will try to locate a smith from the local club. And the copper fouling, I do have some old Shooter's Choice copper treatment. I'm hoping it's something simple, prefer not to spend a bunch of $$ since I won't be doing high power, I can't even get into the sitting position anymore...haha! If it'll shoot reasonably at 100 m, I'll be happy, and will try different load recipes, maybe even cast bullets.
 
I think, if I think I am causing a loss of accuracy, I take myself out of the equation.

Like a good rest, I also use that to get a one shot “bench” zero.



I can completely eliminate hold and pull with a good rest and a remote trigger.

 
Eddy19 said:
The rifle is a Remington model 40x in 22-250 with Sierra 55 gr. and 34gr H4895. I would estimate probably at least 4000 rounds. It was suggested back then I have a Krieger barrel installed. I have another rifle I used, same amount of rounds through it, about the same story of groups opening up, a Winchester mod 70 heavy barrel in 308, Sierra 168 HPBT and H4895, think about 43grs.
Click to expand...

Like others have said - the 22-250 may well indeed be toast, the 308 however may be salvageable with a good copper removal. Get your hands on a bottle of Sweets 7.62 solvent and some nitrile gloves, Follow the directions on the bottle to a "T" and within one or two applications you will likely have burned all of the copper out of the barrel. Once that is accomplished I would lightly oil then dry patch out the bore, fire at least 10 or so fouling shots to get a light coating of copper in the bore and shoot for groups. You may find the accuracy has returned on the 308.
 
Thank you all, really appreciate the replies! I will try them at the range after a good cleaning, perhaps the results will be acceptable at 100 yds instead of 200. I was able to put on a lot of shots because back then I was RO at the range and had unlimited privileges, so inbetween high power matches, I'd practice 3-4 times a week with the 200 yd range all to myself. Anyway, my focus this time around is brushing up my handgun skill for IPSC.
 
4000 rounds through a 22-250 is a pretty high % of the barrel life. A really good cleaning with an aggressive bore solvent followed by a good scrubbing with some type of polish might help. I would rebarrel it if finances will allow.
 
lightman said:
4000 rounds through a 22-250 is a pretty high % of the barrel life. A really good cleaning with an aggressive bore solvent followed by a good scrubbing with some type of polish might help. I would rebarrel it if finances will allow.
Click to expand...

Thanks lightman, I'll do just that. At this time, I have to kinda watch the finances, house remodel coming up and would like to get couple more handguns and perhaps another rifle.
 
Eddy19 said:
The rifle is a Remington model 40x in 22-250 with Sierra 55 gr. and 34gr H4895. I would estimate probably at least 4000 rounds. It was suggested back then I have a Krieger barrel installed. I have another rifle I used, same amount of rounds through it, about the same story of groups opening up, a Winchester mod 70 heavy barrel in 308, Sierra 168 HPBT and H4895, think about 43grs.
Click to expand...

I will bet, when the barrel is removed, and you can examine the chamber from barrel end, you will see no rifling from the throat to midway up the barrel. I pulled targets with a shooter at Camp Perry and he used a 22-250. He had one barrel removed, I no longer remember the exact round count, but it was around1000 rounds, and he claimed the rifling was gone for a foot in front of the chamber.

This is the primary reason these barrel burners don't last in competition. When the barrel is new, the trajectory is amazingly flat, wind resistance great, and by the time the Nationals roll around, the barrel is toast. A bud of mine, he was shooting some 6.5 mm wildcat, he went to the F Class Nationals this year at Raton. I think it was the second day his barrel died and he went from upper ranks, down to bottom of the scoring page. I looked at the results he had on his phone, and his score fell faster than a lead brick. He had less than 2000 rounds through the tube. He had been monitoring, after each match, his throat position and knew it was going to be close.
 
Slamfire said:
I will bet, when the barrel is removed, and you can examine the chamber from barrel end, you will see no rifling from the throat to midway up the barrel. I pulled targets with a shooter at Camp Perry and he used a 22-250. He had one barrel removed, I no longer remember the exact round count, but it was around1000 rounds, and he claimed the rifling was gone for a foot in front of the chamber.

This is the primary reason these barrel burners don't last in competition. When the barrel is new, the trajectory is amazingly flat, wind resistance great, and by the time the Nationals roll around, the barrel is toast. A bud of mine, he was shooting some 6.5 mm wildcat, he went to the F Class Nationals this year at Raton. I think it was the second day his barrel died and he went from upper ranks, down to bottom of the scoring page. I looked at the results he had on his phone, and his score fell faster than a lead brick. He had less than 2000 rounds through the tube. He had been monitoring, after each match, his throat position and knew it was going to be close.
Click to expand...

Next time I'm at the range, I'll inquire about gunsmith's people there use. Like to have the barrels looked at, just for curiosity if not anything else. Yes, that's what happened, especially from prone I used to get fair scores then gradually the groups started opening up terribly. It's too bad I took such a long hiatus soon after, at that time in the early 90's, local gunsmiths were plenty. Thanks Slamfire.
 
Eddy19 said:
22-250 with Sierra 55 gr. and 34gr H4895. I would estimate probably at least 4000 rounds
Click to expand...
Probably the throat, hope it isn't the rifling.
A 22-250 is a shoulder held rocket, I have one fellow here that shoots -THRU- the steel target
with his 22-250 at 280 yards, imagine what it takes to launch it.
Just a judgement based on Launch Capability.
 
Dude your barrel is toast

it still shoots ok, maybe for groundhogs or something,

clean it out for sure, see how it shoots, but 4K rounds on a barrel burner usually means it’s toast

sounds like a new barrel might be in your future, maybe even a new caliber to play with if you wanted
 
JB paste, lap, clean and try again. Could just be copper or other fouling.
 
PapaG said:
JB paste, lap, clean and try again. Could just be copper or other fouling.
Click to expand...

At 4k rounds on a 22-250, the copper fouling may be the only thing the bullet can touch in the first 12" of barrel!!! Scrub that out and the bullet may not seal the bore!
 
Sorry, I have to say it the way that follows:

Dude, 4000 rounds on a .22-250, that barrel is TOAST! No, seriously, when I was actively competing in Service Rifle I considered a .223 barrel a tomato stake after about 3500-4000 rounds. And I was burning 24-25 grains of powder per shot. A .22-250 using 39 grains of powder per round? Yeah, he's dead Jim. Call time of death.

The .308 might come back with a good scrubbing with JB Bore Paste or your copper solvent of choice. 4,000 isn't a lot on a .308 per se, but it is near the end of its competitive lifespan.
 
Thanks all ! I'll just agree with the consensus that the barrel is gone. I will try as a last resort of giving it a copper remover treatment and see how it performs and decide from there. I guess the word is live and learn.
 
I've known for many years that, without a borescope, you really don't know about everything going on inside your barrel.
Price was what kept me from buying one. :(

I recently spent $50 on a Teslong Borescope. (sold on Amazon)
Now I know. :thumbup:
 
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