The 5.7x28mm, suitable for defense?

In a PDW, there is little reason to prefer it to 5.56x45. It's inferior in almost every way and the few advantages it has are probably meaningless.

In a handgun, it might possibly fit a niche, but it is in almost every case of less effectiveness than common handgun cartridges. For detailed discussion, see the several videos Paul Harrel has done on the FN FiveSeven and the Ruger 57. Also read the articles on the cartridge in journal of the International Wound Ballistics Association.

Anyway I was just reading these two articles and went away thinking that the 5.7x28 could be suitable for protection for some folks. Such as those who are recoil shy, hand and wrist injuries, etc.

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The round was developed for handguns as a supplement to the long arm. It was to pierce Soviet Body arm in a smaller arm for behind the lines personnel if the rear was penetrated by the enemy.

The AP rounds aren't available for civilians.

The round can be lethal. See: https://www.dallasnews.com/opinion/...he-gun-nidal-hasan-used-to-kill-at-fort-hood/

Does that mean if you used it in SD or the new Ruger, it would be effective? Probably so - but we can drop into all the jello tests, forever. They are big guns and not the easiest for CCW.

However, at home and if you do have some recoil sensitive handicaps, it would work. We can now go into zombie, meth, biker attackers, etc. but to the core
question of protection for most scenarios - if you mean at home probably and you can't shoot something as benign as a standard striker 9mm, it would work.

This type of question is a frequent one. If you have a physical problem, is it better to have a 22 LR, 38 SPL with low recoil wadcutters, or 32 SW Longs? If that's what you can handle - yes. I'm getting older and still can shoot standard 9mms and 45 ACP with little difficulties. However, I'm suffering from a bad bout of tendinitis in my support hand. I can see a time where a 'lesser round' might be the way to go.

You can't get the AP rounds for that gun anyway. We are not talking about moving up to 223 long arms of those 'pistols'.

whm1974 said:

Any thoughts?

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IMO, that cartridge makes the most sense in the 10.4" barrel select fire P90, especially with the "armor piercing" ammo made for it originally. Personal defense weapon, submachine gun, whatever you want to call it.



I've fired my shootin' buddy's PS90 many times, which has the 16" barrel. Even with the longer barrel, the PS90 is still a small bullpup with 50 rounds of ammo stuffed into a low profile magazine. It's very easy to shoot well with very low felt recoil. In that gun, we see the 5.7x28 ammo as basically a faster .22 WMR cartridge with better feeding and firing reliability. Too bad the ammo costs so much, which is why my shootin' buddy is set up to reload 5.7x28.

His PS90 has become his wife's home defense "long arm". I was out with him and her back in February and we all took the PS90 for another spin. She shoots it very well and prefers it to 5.56 NATO firing guns like ARs or even the FN2000 they have. Even with the PS90 being a blowback action gun, it has less felt recoil or muzzle rise than common 5.56 NATO carbines or bullpups. That's my hands on experience, too.

By the way, that same shootin' buddy bought a KelTec PMR30 a few years back as he wanted FN FiveSeven performance on the cheap. He's not totally enamored with the KelTec due to ammo cost of reliably feeding .22 WMR. Cheap .22 WMR ammo has given his PMR30 fits. If the Ruger 57 would have come out back then, he would have probably bought it instead of the KelTec.

Expect 9mm-ish performance. Yes it's a capable defense caliber.

The P90 is very light and easy to wield. Optics are a bit high over the barrel, so it shoots low CQB, but nothing you can't adjust for. Not a very loud round. USPSA should allow 5.7 in PCC so we can see where the P90 really stacks up. The good ammo is legal, but rare, as FN stopped importing it because it was reaching ''Black Talon'' levels of ignorance and stupidity. Reloaded ammo is even better than ss190.

The pistol is large, but lightweight. As is a full magazine.

Nope.

And I'll bet that they failed to mention that a child's .22, and nearly all rifles, might do the same.

I have a PS90, and its fun to shoot. If it was available to me when I was in the military, I definitely would have found several uses for it, and I would pick it any day over a MP5. As far as a pistol, I think I would prefer to go with a more conventional caliber, at least until more data (and maybe more varieties of ammo) are available.

I use the 5.7, don't believe that "same as 22WMR" garbage. Real life isn't ballistics gel. 22WMR doesn't hold a candle to 5.7 performance. Not to mention, the 5.7
is balls on accurate, to POA, with very fast follow up shots.

The real question, you can pretty much answer for yourself, at the store, when hefting this large, but very light pistol, which is:

"Does this pistol fit MY hand well?" If it does fit your hand well, I doubt either the pistol or the ammo will ever let you down.

Maybe, but why? Ammo seems inconsistent, and the good stuff isn't really available. Do you really want to trust it?

If you are recoil sensitive due to medical issues, then whatever strikes the best balance for you might be a 5.7 pistol, or a large frame revolver with light loads, or any number of other things. This is no best, just what works with a given set of parameters.

The 5.7 in a pistol is pretty close to 22WMR in a rifle.
If you have any doubts about what 5.7 from a pistol can do, take a 22wmr rifle out shooting.
One thing it definitely won't do as good as a 9mm or 45 is shoot through walls and stuff.

chicharrones said:

IMO, that cartridge makes the most sense in the 10.4" barrel select fire P90, especially with the "armor piercing" ammo made for it originally. Personal defense weapon, submachine gun, whatever you want to call it.

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It does, but then compare it to a 10.4" AR with 5.56 green-tips. If you want it a little smaller, get a piston and a folding or fully collapsing stock. viola. The 5.56 has superior performance and the gun is only a little bigger, and ok, the 30-rd magazines aren't 50-rds but the 50 really only makes sense for full auto and who can afford to shoot that much 5.7? 5.56, on the other hand, besides being a more effective cartridge, is also far less costly. The AR pistol can also be a lot less costly.

I think the P90 has its niche, but consider the options on the AR for hosting optics. The P90 is mostly stuck doing one job.

I know that the fort hood massacre was carried with an FN 5.7 pistol. I know that some police agencies in the USA like them also. They are capable of making a lethal wound. I am not planning on getting one, but I am not discounting them.
For now ammo is very expensive and I know the 9mm works very well.

whm1974 said:

Yeah but who carries an AR pistol? People living in Texas?

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Never saw one being carried. Seen them shot a bit. They are terrible noisemakers.

So is this for a handgun in the house or a EDC handgun or what?

For me a 5.7 is appropriate for self defense coming from a carbine or pistol. I would have not issue carrying one if it fit a particular need of mine.

Many on this board wouldn't consider carrying anything less powerful than a .357. I have no interest in trying to talk them into carrying something lighter or debating the merits of doing so.

If you are worried about fending off a Grizzly bear attack or a charging rhino that has escaped from the zoo you would probably be best off looking for something with a fair bit more powerful than a 5.7.

The Grainger Tool catalog lists 1.6 million tools. It's as thick as an old school big city phone book. The results of my FN 5.7 pistol firing FN SS 195 LF ammunition at 25 feet (3 semi circles) indicates, to me, that it's apparently sufficient for self defense. For comparison the big full circle is a .50 BMG.
This is not an EDC for me. It does rest on the top shelf of my safe at the ready if needed.

whm1974 said:

Yeah but who carries an AR pistol? People living in Texas?

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The Secret Service. The same people that used to carry P90's. They switched from 5.7 to 5.56 because of the same reasoning I detailed. Technically, they don't need "pistols" because they can have SBR's without NFA hassle. One could argue the P90 was more concealable, but then what I think you're pointing out is that they still don't fit in my waistband, so why not just have the AR?

Until ammunition companies shoot a statistically sufficient number of people with their new cartridges, how do we know if the ammunition is as good as claimed?

Shoot some pigs. You're not tougher than a pig.

I don't know if it has been tested for this, but it is likely to have less drywall penetration than a 9mm. The best I have seen was a factory .223 load that consistently failed to penetrate three sheets. I am petty sure that it was a V-Max load. A lot of us have neighbours, less drywall penetration is a desirable attribute.

5.7x28 was never intended to replace 556 NATO, so the comparisons aren’t that valid. If you’re expecting to need a rifle and can have a rifle available, carry a rifle. No arguments needed.

The advantage of a pistol like the Ruger 57 or the FiveSeven is the ability to get a large capacity pistol with low recoil in a very flat shooting cartridge. The effectiveness on humans of 5.7x28 seems to be adequate based on actual shootings.

BSW