9x25 dillon penetration questions

[Grey Morel]

The 5.7x28 FN is known to be a big penetrator, as is the 7.62x25 Tokarev.

I have recently become interested inthe 9x25 Dillon cartridge; I reload so the ammo isnt as big of a deal. This is a "fun" project gun anyway.

To simplify things:

* 5.7 pushes a 40 grain bullet at 1,700 fps from a handgun

* 7.62 Tokarev pushes an 85 grain bullet at 1,500 fps from a handgun

* 9x25 Dillon pushes a 90 grain bullet at 2,100 fps from a handgun

Also interesting is that the 90grain Dillon load has less than 3" of drop at 100 yards. The 115grain loading has a litt over 3" of drop, and arives at 100 yards with as much energy as a 9mm +P has at the muzzle.

My questions are:

1) Do you think a FMJ loading from the 9x25 Dillon could match the performance of the 5.7x28 FN or the 7.62x25 Tokarev rounds for kevlar penetration?

2) Do you think the 9x25 dillon cartridge would be acceptable for hunting CPX2 class game out to 50 yards, where it is legal to do so?

Thank you.

 

[Deer Hunter]

Yes and Yes.

 

[General Geoff]

comparing 9x25 Dillon to 5.7x28 or 7.62 Tokarev? The Dillon pushes a heavier bullet, at much higher velocities. It will both penetrate further and deposit more energy in the target. It will also penetrate body armour just as well or better than the 5.7 or Tokarev.

 

[eitrheim31]

velocity is (almost) everything when it comes to penetration, and that is almost to rifle velocities. as far as hunting with it- a 90 grain bullet at 2100fps is about 880 foot pounds of energy. the 357 magnum with a 130grain bullet will get about 575 foot lbs of energy from a pistol. i think if you load it up with some hollow points close range hunting on thin skin game shouldn't be a problem.

 

[Grey Morel]

Correct. With the right atmospheric conditions, the 90 grain load could break 900 ft-lbs.

Doesnt surface area contribute to the penetration depth? If you put the same amount of force behind a smaller bullet, wouldn't it penetrate deeper?

In order for a larger diameter bullet to penetrate the same depth, wouldnt it require more force?

 

[Floppy_D]

One way or another, please keep us posted; I've been fascnated with that round for a good while, I'd love to hear your findings.

 

[Clifford]

Is the 9x25 dillon on a 1911 platform?

 

[Pulse]

1) Do you think a FMJ loading from the 9x25 Dillon could match the performance of the 5.7x28 FN or the 7.62x25 Tokarev rounds for kevlar penetration?

i am no expert in armor penetration, but both, .357SIG and .357magnum can drive 90-125gr bullets in the 1500-1750 fps range, full power factory loads or proper handloads provided.

both rounds are known to be good in the penetration department, but neither is known to be a kevlar penetrating round.

 

[Grey Morel]

400-600 fps faster can make all the difference in the world; thats the difference between a 9x19 and a 357 Sig. The Dillon is the same leap forward from the Sig round.

I was originaly interested in an FN Five seven, but I dont like the monopoly on ammunition or the scary reports of firing out of battery.

A Glock 20 with a 6" Dillon conversion barrel will solve those problems by allowing me to shoot doubletap ammo for the 9x25 Dillon, or standard 10mm by switching back to the factory barrel. It would also cost around $300 less when all was said and done.

 

[MachIVshooter]

One caveat:

The 90 gr. .355" bullets are intended for the .380, and so designed for velocities around 900-1100 FPS. They will not perfrom well at over 2,000 FPS. One the same note, there are not .355" pills that were designed for 9x25 velocities, but good bullets like the Hornady XTP at the upper end of the weight spectrum (147 gr.) will give satisfactory performance.

If it is maximum penetration you seek, I think I'd be after 124 gr. FMC like the Speer Uni-cor.

 

[Grey Morel]

There exist solid brass and copper bullets in the 80-90 grain range. These whare what i had in mind.

barnes sold solid copper bullets at one time, but it looks like they only sell the hollowpoints now. Are any similiar solids currently being made?

 

[Grey Morel]

I have tracked down a source for a 71grain THV solid brass bullet.

Hopefully i will be able to pick up a Glock 20 and a conversion barrel sometime in the next few weeks.

 

[Grey Morel]

I will do what work i can developing a load until then.

 

[KBintheSLC]

Doesnt surface area contribute to the penetration depth? If you put the same amount of force behind a smaller bullet, wouldn't it penetrate deeper?

You are right, sort of... but momentum also plays a role. Lighter, faster bullets sometimes penetrate less despite having more energy. They can fragment or expand rapidly on contact. They also have less momentum... meaning that the lower mass is more affected by interaction with dense, wet bodies. Heavier bullets can dig deeper despite having less energy, due to slower expansion and less fragmentation.

However, the 9x25 is both heavier and faster... that gives you the best of both worlds. For hunting anything bigger than a coyote, I would go with something heavier than 90gr though. You could probably hunt pretty decent sized game with some heavy, hard-cast lead flat points.

 

[ReloaderFred]

I own a 9x25 Dillon pistol that I built on an EAA Witness. From the 4.5" barrel of the Witness, I'm getting 1533 fps with a 115 grain bullet. The round is deadly accurate out to 100 yards.

The biggest expense you're going to run into is the cost of dies, since Dillon is the only company I'm aware of at the moment that makes them (or rather has them made for them).

I have a 6" Nowlin barrel in 9x23 Winchester for the Witness that I may ream to 9x25, to get the maximum use of the large amounts of powder it burns. I have other projects before I get to that one, though.

Hope this helps.

Fred

 

[matai]

So would the 9x25 be better for bears than a 10mm?

 

[freakshow10mm]

Never. I trust a 200gr XTP at 1200fps from the 10mm over a 147gr at full speed from the 9x25.

 

[ReloaderFred]

No, the 10mm would be better, though not ideal. I live in bear country and have them in my yard on occasion. I've seen one killed with a 9mm, but that was because that was the only firearm at hand and the bear forced the issue.

The 9x25 is really designed for the 115 grain bullet. I have all the original notes from Dillon, along with the loads they tried, including loads that didn't work out well. They settled on the 115 grain bullet because they were shooting steel plates and targets, so that's where they did most of their load development.

For bears, you're much better off with a revolver in a Magnum loading, preferably .41 Magnum or larger. And you're actually better off with a rifle or shotgun loaded with slugs. My wife and I always carry a handgun when walking the dogs near our house, as we've had encounters with bears that have lost their fear of humans. My wife has found that one of those pressure can air horns for boats works pretty good for scaring them off when they get a little aggressive, but she always has her revolver with her, too.

Hope this helps.

Fred

 

[Nom de Forum]

This is just a swag, but I believe a 9x25 would require a 115gr FMJ @1800fps to equal the kevlar penetration of a 7.62x25 using a 85gr FMJ @ 1500fps. I believe the 9x25 would need the extra weight and velocity to equal the Sectional Density, and Energy applied to Area ratio of the 7.62x25. This also assumes that the strength of the core and jacket of the two FMJs makes each equal in ability to resist deformation.

 

[LightningMan]

I know the current FN SS 197 SR 5.7x28mm ammo is around 1700 fps out of a pistol, but there is better ammo out there, like the SS 195 LF or SS 192 or even Elite Ammunition, they push many of their loadings over 2000 fps+. Heck if you look at some of the reloading data there are loads pushing 2000 fps+. Example; Accurate lists a 35 grain V-max FB loaded with 8.2 grains of AA#7 with a COL of 1.491 pushing the velocity to 2,197 fps. For the most part the SS 197 SR is really watered down 5.7x28mm ammo, and only worth buying for the componets, brass mainly. Just my opinion, LM.