Going back to an M&P!

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Big D

Big D

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Hey yall. Back in December, I decided to try the P320 Carry, my first and only Sig. I fell in love with the gun, it is accurate and easy for me to shoot well. I shoot quite a bit of steel case 9mm, and have quite a bit on hand. I expect any handgun I own to be able to shoot it in an emergency and at the range. The P320 ran the steel case at first, but over the last few months, it has began to completely choke on steel. Although I ensured the extractor and it's components were consistently cleaned, the P320 chokes on every other round of steel and fails to extractor every time. I installed a Lone Wolf extractor hoping this might solve the issue, but it did not. I also ordered completely new extractor parts from Sig to replace them all, but decided I no longer trust this gun with my life and do not believe sending it back to Sig would solve anything, as they will only tell me not to run steel.

As a result, I made the choice to go back to an M&P, as the GEN 1 and 2.0 I've had over the years never malfunctioned with any type of ammo I ran through them. I now have a M&P9 2.0 FDE with the Truglo FTX sights on the way and plan to provide a complete range repo
 
Just because a gun won't run well with steel case doesn't mean its unreliable. I believe all steel case is FMJ anyway, so it is a poor choice for defensive purposes, but not bad for training (for guns that will eat it). My Glocks eat steel case like candy (no surprise there). My shield 9 wants nothing to do with it. My dad's Ruger SR-9 works fine with it; Mrs. Fl- NC's LCP won't have it. I have had AR15's that worked fine with it and others that become instant jamamatics.
 
What will you take for the Sig? :D Just kidding.

I have shot very little steel cased ammo so have no experience with any problems with in. I have read that lacquer can build up in the cylinder and scratching of the chamber walls can occur from it’s use. If you haven’t already done so I would make sure it’s chamber is shiny clean and polish out any scratches found before calling it quits on the gun.

The M&P is my favorite of the many plastic fantastic available so I’ll add an attaboy for your replacement choice.
 
I have attempted to diagnose the problem with other Sig owners, and none can offer any insight other than don't feed it cheap ammo. That argument does not hold water with me. I understand that steel case ammo is looked at as been lower quality and in the past maybe it was. I have shot case after case of the stuff and have seen good accuracy and reliability with it out of Glocks, M&Ps, Rugers, and even SCCY handguns; some people believe it is dirtier than other types of ammo, but I personally have not seen that. When I have to pry a stuck casing out of a handgun with a reputation like Sig, something is wrong. Some people may be able to live with the fact that their gun runs fine only with brass or they only intend to feed it with brass, but if I need to use any kind of ammo (within reason) in an emergency, I want to be able to depend on my gun cycling that ammo.
 
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Check your chamber for lacquer build up. That may be the problem. That’s what happened to a friend that likes to run steel ammo from Russia. I won’t touch the stuff but he likes it.
I do remember him saying that he almost couldn’t tell the chamber was lacquered up because it was uniformly spread. I believe he soaked the chamber end of his barrel in lacquer thinner for a while and he cleaned it out easily. Give it a try. Can’t hurt.
 
I like my M&P a lot, too.

I don't run steel-cased ammo through my handguns, but it's possibly an irrational prejudice.
 
Gave my son in law some steel case 40 a couple years ago and it hated the stuff. It would make the slide close like real slow or maybe a pause. It was crazy to watch. He had a M&P 40 full size.
 
I've had the same experience. My P320RX doesn't like steel case ammo. My M&P's, Glocks, CZ's, Wilson Combats and Dan Wessons are fine with it. I still have about 1600 rounds of Tullammo from when it was available at $140 or so delivered per case.
 
I know some of the old stuff may have been lacquer coated, but I have never seen lacquer coated steel.....its all polymer coated. No handgun is going to get anywhere close to hot enough for any type of coating to allegedly melt into the chamber.
 
Big D said:
I know some of the old stuff may have been lacquer coated, but I have never seen lacquer coated steel.....its all polymer coated. No handgun is going to get anywhere close to hot enough for any type of coating to allegedly melt into the chamber.
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and yet...

Big D said:
The P320 ran the steel case at first, but over the last few months, it has began to completely choke on steel.
Click to expand...

What else could have possibly changed on the gun, that it worked fine when you started shooting the steel cased ammo, but stopped after some use?

The folks have given you a suggestion for getting your P320 to work. If you don't like the gun and want to move away from it, that's fine, but it seems like a simple maintenance issue that could get your gun up and running again.
 
I have a couple of M&P's, an original Shield and 2.0 Compact both 9mm. They're outstanding pistols and haven't had trouble running anything I've fed them.
 
JTQ said:
and yet...



What else could have possibly changed on the gun, that it worked fine when you started shooting the steel cased ammo, but stopped after some use?

The folks have given you a suggestion for getting your P320 to work. If you don't like the gun and want to move away from it, that's fine, but it seems like a simple maintenance issue that could get your gun up and running again.
Click to expand...

None of the steel case ammo I shot through the P320 was lacquer coated; as I stated above none of the steel case ammo I've ever bought has been lacquer coated.
 
Not sure why anyone with a gun they like would actually shoot steel-cased ammo through it.

Buying (or going back to) a new pistol is an expensive solution to a non-existent problem. The real solution is clean the gun more often, and if you are cleaning the gun often, clean it better than you have been, and even more often.

It's not about the coating on the cases, it's about the the fact that the steel cases don’t expand the same way that brass cases do, causing much more carbon build up between the case and the chamber wall. It's frickin' dirty ammo, and this will cause stuck cases and failure to extract/eject. I just don't "believe" it's dirtier than other ammo, I know it is.

I do know that I own two P-320s, and the only steel-cased ammo I've shot is that cheap Winchester crap, a couple boxes through 'em, with no problems. And I sure can't see having to use "any kind of ammo" in an emergency -- I'm personally going to use only what I know works (if I'm down to steel-case FMJ only when bad stuff is going on, I've got other problems), so it seems to me that you're simply looking for an excuse to give up on the pistol.
 
Big D said:
None of the steel case ammo I shot through the P320 was lacquer coated; as I stated above none of the steel case ammo I've ever bought has been lacquer coated.
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The point is, perhaps they're coated with something else. You could try the recommendation from the folks to see if it works.

On the other hand, perhaps your P320 simply chose to not like steel cased ammo, after working with it just fine when the gun was new.
 
I use this Schuemann Barrels quote often to point out to folks they are most likely over cleaning their barrels, but for you, I'll bold the part about cleaning the chamber which is probably what your P320 needs. Not that you need to scrape it out, but solvent recommendations from the folks would probably work.

http://www.schuemann.com/Portals/0/Documentation/Webfile_Barrel_Cleaning.pdf
My Personal Practice has become to never clean the bore of my barrels. I do use a brass rod to scrape the deposits out of the chamber. But, I've learned to leave the bore alone and it very slowly becomes shinier and cleaner all by itself. Years ago I occasionally scrubbed the bore with a brass bore brush. But, doing so always seemed to cause the bore to revert to a dirtier look with more shooting, so I eventually stopped ever putting anything down the bore except bullets...
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I think Old Dog is on to it. Clean that barrel with lead and copper cleaner, you'll see a huge amount of lovely green and blue. Make sure you clean the chamber. Put a light in there and see the discoloration of carbon.
 
I wouldn't base my choice of a gun on whether it shot Iron Curtain Iron Bullets, but the Plastic M&P is my PPP (Preferred Plastic Pistol.). Can't do much with the P320 or Glock.
Matches are resuming, maybe I won't have to join the Gun of the Month Club and start dinking around with other brands.
 
JTQ

Great reading! Thanks for posting the Schuemann Barrels information concerning cleaning barrels!
 
Lacquer buildup excuse just will not go away will it.... No such thing. There are way too many other variables involved to just blame something on a myth. If it was made to run NATO or commercial ammo, it will generally need the seal provided by brass when fired. Otherwise the chamber gets crudded up and quickly. That is usually what causes the problems blamed on the "lacquer" buildup boogyman.

If I find something I own does not like steel, so be it. But I can also fully understand the desire to have something eat anything you might have to lay your hands on.

But the lacquer thing has been repeatedly dispelled, (and yes it's a polymer). Please don't believe me, look it up for yourself.
 
M-14 said:
Lacquer buildup excuse just will not go away will it.... No such thing. There are way too many other variables involved to just blame something on a myth. If it was made to run NATO or commercial ammo, it will generally need the seal provided by brass when fired. Otherwise the chamber gets crudded up and quickly. That is usually what causes the problems blamed on the "lacquer" buildup boogyman.

If I find something I own does not like steel, so be it. But I can also fully understand the desire to have something eat anything you might have to lay your hands on.

But the lacquer thing has been repeatedly dispelled, (and yes it's a polymer). Please don't believe me, look it up for yourself.
Click to expand...

In all honesty I haven't ever felt the need to run steel cased ammo in my guns but even if the cause isn't lacquer it would still seem like a thorough chamber cleaning might correct what is going on with the OP's pistol. I believe if I were him I would at least try it before changing platforms. For whatever it is worth I have a M&P 2.0 Compact & I like it a lot. I wouldn't want to go through the expense of changing platforms if a thorough cleaning of the chamber could clear up the issue though.
 
I believe I have always done a thorough job with maintaining my firearms. I always Hoppes 9 for excess carbon build up and run a bore brush through the barrel several times after each range session
The only thing I haven't tried is chocking up a bore brush on a drill motor and letting it run in the chamber......despite never having to do that with any other firearm I've ever owned.
 
Mike J said:
In all honesty I haven't ever felt the need to run steel cased ammo in my guns but even if the cause isn't lacquer it would still seem like a thorough chamber cleaning might correct what is going on with the OP's pistol. I believe if I were him I would at least try it before changing platforms. For whatever it is worth I have a M&P 2.0 Compact & I like it a lot. I wouldn't want to go through the expense of changing platforms if a thorough cleaning of the chamber could clear up the issue though.
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A good chamber brush/cleaning is exactly the place to start with steel. I don't want to offend anyone, or mean to be a captain obvious for those who already know. Steel cases do not expand (as much) and seal the chamber when fired like brass does. So a (relative) lot of blowby is what gums up the chamber. That can be seen by how dirty the cases are.

I don't shoot a lot of steel myself, but any time I get something new, I will run some to see if it is good with it. I have a Canik TP9SF that will eat steel all day long, or anything else for that matter. For that reason, it is on my gun belt as part of my worst case scenario setup. But my edc has brass in it, and I generally run brass anyway, because I reload..
 
Big D, the Smith &Wesson M&P line are fine pistols and S&W is a top tier manufacturer. Make the switch and don’t look back.

Unless one is an armorer or very wealthy, he doesn’t get more than a few examples of any firearm. And each firearm is just a machine, with its individual variables, so some are finicky in their own way. Your “sample of one” P320 doesn’t feed steel cased ammo; no big deal.

Thankfully we live in a golden age of handgun production and have plenty of choices of very reliable models from many different manufacturers.
 
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