Questions regarding load development

I go as far as a load that runs 100% and does what I wanted it to do before I started.

I don’t know what your wanting to do with your Commander 9mm but if it’s not tiny groups at longer than normal pistol distances the plated berry’s should do it.

I wouldn’t spend a lot of time fiddling with OAL, if they don’t meet your accuracy requirements, try a decent JHP instead, they will be much more accurate.

What you are doing sounds about right. I like to load to the long end of the spectrum and with my 9mm guns I am loading that bullet to 1.155" to 1.160" and using the Win231/HP-38 powder at the same levels. Most of mine are at 4.2gr as that is what naturally drops from a cavity on my Lee Auto Disk measure. If I have a beginner shooting I will load that same thing down to 4.0gr and that also works well out to 25yds.

My biggest problem is at 25yds and open iron sights I can't see a 2" Bullseye any more.

mels95yj said:

I want a better understanding of everything ... I always struggle with load development and have to research it all over again ... I laddered up the load with one or two OAL's, settled on one and stopped.

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Determining OAL and powder charge to optimize accuracy shouldn't be a struggle or a guessing game.

Over the decades, I have used the following process:

• Determine the max OAL that will freely fall into the barrel and spin without touching the rifling (To minimize gas leakage)
• Then determine the max working OAL that will reliably feed/chamber from the magazine by incrementally decreasing the OAL (Say by .005")
• Conduct full powder work up to identify the powder charge that produces smallest groups (Reducing start/max charges by .2-.3 gr if using shorter OAL than published)
• Incrementally decrease the OAL to see if group size decreases (Neck tension overshadowing gas leakage)

That's about it. No struggle. No guessing.

mels95yj said:

DW Valor Commander 9mm ... Berry's 124 gr. HBRN-TP ... plunk tests ... 1.2" with this bullet. So, any length of round should work.

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Hollow base increases the length of bullet by extending the bullet base as shown in below comparison pictures

Federal 115 gr FMJ HB, RMR 115 gr FMJ, Berry's 115 gr HBRN-TP



From left to right, Berry's 124 gr solid base, 124 gr HBRN-TP, 115 gr HBRN-TP and 115 gr FMJ



When Berry's MFG introduced the HBRN-TP bullets with longer base, I was concerned about deeper seating of bullet base and I think Berry's MFG thought so also as they published recommended OAL as 1.160" for 124 gr HBRN-TP - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?attachments/berrys-col-pdf.896428/

Then came Hodgdon/Winchester load data for Berry's bullets - http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/data/pistol

• 9mm 124 gr BERB HBRN-TP W231/HP-38 COL 1.150" Start 3.9 gr (920 fps) - Max 4.4 gr (1,037 fps)

mels95yj said:

Win 231 ... Load Data ... at 1.150" OAL and ranges from 3.9gr to 4.4gr. I've loaded 12 of each 1.150" at 4.0, 4.2 and 4.4gr along with 1.145" at the same grain measurements.

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I would suggest testing at 1.150" first and adding 4.3 gr powder charge.


And if range test shows accuracy developing at 4.3 gr, you can incrementally decrease the OAL to see if group size decreases (W231/HP-38 is dense powder so powder compression shouldn't be an issue but if you are concerned, we can do max case fill calculations).


If shorter OAL produce smaller group, use shorter OAL. (And note reduction in powder charge due to using shorter than published OAL)

kmw1954 said:

Most of mine are at 4.2gr as that is what naturally drops from a cavity on my Lee Auto Disk measure

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Many shooters use 4.3 gr W231/HP-38 with 124 gr bullets as higher powder charge produced slightly greater accuracy.

We have resolved the in-between Auto Disk hole drop issue a long time ago with this $1 DIY mod - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/working-diy-micro-auto-disk.741988/

Yeup. Use a hex head set screw or just switch the Lee Auto Drum. I happen to like that 4.2gr at 1.155" with both the hollow base bullet and the flat base bullets. The published starting load is 3.9gr and that would not fully cycle my PT92 enough to lock the slide on the last round. Though a bump to just 4.0gr and everything was Honky/Dory.

I believe, and have some data to support the idea, that deeply seated bullets perform better. We (members of the Original CZ Forum) have 2 theories as to why this might be, but it seems to hold that 9mm cartridges like at least 0.200" of bullet inside the case, and accuracy seems to improve as you approach 0.250". Obviously this is not always possible, but it's considered a goal when planning your OAL.

However some 1911's are known to have definite OAL preferences for best feeding. So you may in fact have a 'tug of war' between these 2 "wants". Only range time will sort it out.

If feeding was not an issue, I'd be loading these closer to 1.130", giving you an insertion depth close to 0.235".

Hope this helps.

mels95yj said:

This is confusing me. You say keep the charge at 4.3 while decreasing the OAL, but then say note reduction in powder charge.

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Yes, since 4.4 gr is max charge, you wouldn't want to use shorter than published OAL at 4.4 gr.

Instead, using reduced 4.3 gr charge with OAL reduction shorter than published 1.150" down to 1.135".

If accuracy trends, you may want to consider testing 4.2 gr with 1.135" or even 1.130".

BTW, Berry's plated bullets are sized larger at .356" (compared to .355" typical of jacketed bullets).

So I use .378" taper crimp with them to not cut into copper plating and not reduce bullet diameter. If you use too much taper crimp with plated bullets, you can reduce neck tension and decrease accuracy.

Powder charge reduction from published max depends on how much shorter you are below published OAL.

It is not an exact science but depending on powder burn rate and how short I am loading below published OAL (Actual focus on bullet seating depth, especially if using different bullet type than published load data), I usually reduce start/max charges by .2-.3 gr if working OAL/bullet seating depth is significantly shorter.