5.56 in a Rem .223 rifle

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Russell13

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So we have all been told that you shouldn’t shoot 5.56 mm out of a .223 rifle. Does anyone have any experience with this? Has anyone ever experienced a failure from using 5.56 in a .223?
I have a savage bolt action in .223, I have shot 5.56 through it without a problem. I could even tell the difference between the two when shooting?
Manufacturers tell you not to do it just for liability purposes. They also tell you not to shoot reloads or hand loads through there rifles but everyone does.
 
I had problems with my H&R Handi-Rifle with a 223 chamber when shooting 5.56 ammunition. The 5.56 ammo would cause the action to pop open upon firing. And I am not the only one to have that issue. A lot of it is how tight or loose the 223 chamber is cut. I would not shoot 5.56 in a tight 223 chamber.
 
The TLDR answer of this question is: not recommended. Just because 5.56 will work in one 223 rifle doesn't mean they all will.
 
Just because 5.56 will work in one 223 rifle doesn't mean they all will.

It would be extremely rare to find a 223 rifle that won't work just fine with 5.56 ammo. In fact you're far more likely to find individual 30-06 rifles that won't work with some factory 30-06 ammo than you are to find a 223 rifle that will give you problems with 5.56 ammo.

The most likely problem will be a semi-auto chambered in 223. Many 5.56 loads will not function reliably. But there are no current 223 chambered semi-auto rifles being made and only a handful ever made.
 
I have in an H&R without issue. This one has an incredibly long throat.
I consider it to be a do at your own risk. Kind of like loading off the books.
 
I seriously doubt any gun manufacturer has cut a .223 chamber lead short enough to cause problems with 62gr. bullets in the last 15 years at least. They know that sooner or later somebody is going to put a 5.56 round in that gun and dont want the liability of blowup. 70grs+ though......I wouldnt try it without calling the maker first.
 
I tried 70 grain but could t get good groups with them.
The only problem I ever ran into was some of the cheaper Fiocchi ammo. It wouldn’t eject the casing after being fired. This was on a bolt action and I had to hit the bolt handle to get it out. Ended up putting the ammo in an AR and it shot fine
 
My H&R Handi-Rifle with a 223 chamber was made in 2006 and it definitely had problems with 5.56 ammo. Like I said it would pop the action open every time. Not worth the risk. I'm sure that in the last 15 years that manufacturers have started reaming 223 chambers a littler closer to 5.56 specs for safety/liability reasons. If you have a 223 chambered rifle with a tight chamber or an older rifle, I would not risk it. YMMV.
 
It helps to know what is different about the two cartridges. Pressure is the biggest issue when shooting 5.56 in a 223 chamber.
Another thing is that not everyone cuts their chambers to the same specs. So one 223 chamber may have a longer throat and freebore then another.
You can have a gunsmith ream a 223 to 556.
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Get same quandary about shooting 308 win in 7.62x51. Yes it will. Yes 308 win is a bit higher pressure. But should you do it?
I won't. The guns are ammo rated. Not worth the chance.
I have heard of people nipping the chamber on a .223 to properly accept a 5.56 but the gun was, in what way I don't know, said to be same mechanically and physically as a 5.56 of same brand.
They case difference is small. The pressure is some higher. I guess it's really a question for the manufacture as to if a .223 of that brand is the same as their .5.56 and what are the machining differences.
 
Get same quandary about shooting 308 win in 7.62x51. Yes it will. Yes 308 win is a bit higher pressure. But should you do it?

Which specific rifle do you have which is chambered for 7.62x51 rather than 308win?

I wrote this up at another site a few years ago regarding the pressure standard - the chamber standards are exactly the same, which is not the case for 5.56x45 and 223 Remington, the only differences are pressure standard and measurement method:

There DO EXIST three pressure and chamber standards for 308win/7.62x51mm.

CIP, SAAMI, and NATO EPVAT (which also shares reciprocity with CIP compliance)

CIP = Commission internationale permanente pour l'épreuve des armes à feu portatives In English, that's basically: "Permanent International Commission for the Proof of Small Arms" - This is the regulatory body worldwide, and most importantly, this is who NATO looks at for ammunition standards.

CIP Standard for 308 Winchester = 4150 bar, which is 60,190psi


CIP standard list - includes 308win in Tab 1-Rimless cartridges (might have to search for it at the top)

SAAMI = Sporting Arms and Ammunition Manufacturers Institute - This is the voluntary compliance proof registration body in the USA

SAAMI standard for 308 Winchester = 62,000psi


SAAMI standard list - includes 308win on page 43

NATO EPVAT = North Atlantic Treaty Organization Electronic Velocity and Action Time - this is the certifying standard for NATO approved ammunition. In lieu of direct EPVATbarrel testing, ammunition manufacturers CAN get NATO acceptance by complying to CIP standards

7.62 mm. STANAG 2310 and NATO Manual of Proof and Inspection AC/225 (LG/3-SG/1) D/9

NATO EPVAT standard for 7.62 NATO = 415.0 Mpa which is 60,190psi But the measurement position is ahead of the case mouth, which differs from the testing methods used by CIP & SAAMI. However, NATO EPVAT does accept approved CIP compliance as qualification.

The important things:
  • Both CIP and SAAMI call the cartridge "308 Winchester" with 7.62x51mm as an interchangeable name. This is different than the 223/5.56 cartridges where US Customary vs. Metric nomenclature delineates two different cartridges within these commissions. So the name on the box actually doesn't really matter for their standards. For NATO EPVAT, 7.62x51mm, or more officially 7.62 NATO is the the official nomenclature used, no 308win anywhere. BUT - commercial ammunition labeled as 7.62x51 or 7.62 NATO are not necessarily certified as NATO EPVAT compliant unless branded as such with the NATO Circled Cross on the headstamp.
  • SAAMI compliance is voluntary, nobody is required to submit their ammunition for testing. NATO EPVAT testing is only required (if CIP is not met) if you want to contract to NATO country military service, nobody is required to meet that standard for commercial/civilian ammunition. No maker in the US is required to submit to CIP. So technically, ammo on the shelf does NOT have to be 62,000psi proven, or 60,190psi proven. It could be anything the ammunition manufacturer wants it to be, higher or lower.
  • Foreign made stuff, if it's compliant with anything at all, regardless of 308win or 7.62x51 on the box, will almost always be CIP compliant, not SAAMI, meaning it's loaded to lower pressure than USA manufactured ammunition COULD be loaded.
  • Even though the same maximum pressure is listed for CIP & NATO EPVAT, they do not use the same position in the barrel for their respective tests, so the same maximum pressure does not necessarily represent exactly the same operating pressure curve, or even interchangeable maximum pressure.
  • SAAMI, or CIP, compliant loads are not necessarily loaded to the Maximum Allowable Pressure standard, but are only assured to be beneath it. So it's very common for ammunition manufacturers to produce a CIP or NATO compliant load (which ever ends up the lowest of the 2), then have it tested and labeled as compliant for all 3. Being under the lowest qualifies for all 3. This also saves production cost for the manufacturer.
  • Unless it has a NATO Circled Cross, it's a safe bet it's not been EPVAT tested, nor approved, so if it's foreign, it's likely CIP standard, if it's US, it's likely SAAMI
 
Which specific rifle do you have which is chambered for 7.62x51 rather than 308win?

I wrote this up at another site a few years ago regarding the pressure standard - the chamber standards are exactly the same, which is not the case for 5.56x45 and 223 Remington, the only differences are pressure standard and measurement method:
Then you shoot them. Shooting other than stated for the weapon is a fools errand.
 
That’s part of why the 223 Wylde chamber was introduced. It’s approximately the chamber dimensions of the 5.56 with the freebore of the 223 rem.

My AR is 223 wylde, and most I see today are

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I'm curious why s&w lists both calibers on their site for the mp sport 2.
 
I'm curious why s&w lists both calibers on their site for the mp sport 2.
From my understanding, it is ‘unsafe’ to fire 5.56 in a 223. On the opposite end, it IS safe to fire 223 in a 5.56, but you will potentially have a slight loss in accuracy.

223 has been SAAMI standardized. 5.56 is not.

I’m literally paraphrasing this lucky gunner article because it would be impossible to remember all of these dimensions and specs. Should answer all of your questions.

https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/5-56-vs-223/
 
I'm curious why s&w lists both calibers on their site for the mp sport 2.

I'm assuming either (or both):
1. Don't want to take the chance that, by only listing 5.56, prospective customers don't disqualify the Sport 2 from their purchase consideration. "Well, it doesn't shoot .223, so I've got to consider something else!"
2. Reduce pre-sales (or post-sales) support calls.
 
Then you shoot them. Shooting other than stated for the weapon is a fools errand.

I thought it was a pretty simple question. Very very few rifles are chambered specifically as 7.62x51, and any such made in the US is made to SAAMI standards, for which 308win and 7.62x51mm are identical.

So which rifle do you have, in particular, which is stamped as 7.62x51 and made outside of the US?
 
This entire thread is a non-issue. It’s a stupid discussion because the rounds are interchangeable and do not cause problems in modern guns in either .223 or .308. I have reloaded for both calibers for 35 years and used military and commercial Brass interchangeably in bolt action and semi auto rifles. Some of you guys act like every round of Ammo produced is some exactly machined part down to .0001 inch accuracy. Ha ha
 
Reloads and factory ammo can be different. I agree about reloads since you use the exact same dies for both 223 and 5.56. And yes some guns with a 223 chamber will have problems with 5.56 ammo, but not all will.
 
I had problems with my H&R Handi-Rifle with a 223 chamber when shooting 5.56 ammunition. The 5.56 ammo would cause the action to pop open upon firing. And I am not the only one to have that issue. A lot of it is how tight or loose the 223 chamber is cut. I would not shoot 5.56 in a tight 223 chamber.
I had the exact same problem.
 
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