Having problems with blown primers

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Wesson0122 said:
Thanks for the reply. The only other thing I could think of was the fact I was shooting in 100 degree weather, and I know that can also contribute to the problem.
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are you leaving your ammo out in the sun? that right there can run pressures up a bunch. are you letting the barrel cool down between shots? on a hundred degree day, the barrel heats up really fast. if you can't keep your hand on the barrel (down by the action) then it is too hot. are you leaving a round in the chamber between shots? leaving a round in the chamber for a minute will heat the round to barrel temperature in an instant. brass is an excellent conductor of heat.

so, cover your ammo, cover your gun when not shooting, don't leave a round in the chamber any longer than necessary, cool down the barrel between shots and enjoy the day shooting.

luck,

murf
 
climbnjump said:
I'm wondering about the 2950 fps on your load of 62gr of RL22. All rifles are different, of course, but that's a velocity that I would expect to see if you were running closer to 65gr - closer to max pressure.

So I guess I'd like to know how certain you are that your 62 grains is actually 62. I apologize if that sounds kinda condescending, but based on the velocity, I'm wondering if your original loads are running at a higher pressure than the recipe itself would indicate. And if that's the case, then the 100 degree day by itself might actually be the issue on your blown primers.

Also, by any chance did you change powder lots between the two days?
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I've had a couple savage rifles run faster than the test data with less powder and 2" less barrel. They blew primers long before I got to max.
 
Riomouse911 said:
I thought RL 23 was the temp stable Reloader powder and Rl 22 wasn’t as stable. I could be wrong, but I load a lot of Rl 22 and it does seem to swing a bit depending on how hot or cold it is.

The 100 deg F temperature you’re describing is pretty high, if you shot others in the winter that may be a lot of the problem with the increased pressures you’re getting.
Good luck finding out the problem!

Stay safe.
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I believe you are correct. The RL22 is NOT temp stable. My neighbor tried to use in his Rem 7mm Mag one year. He had a very good load at 75-80F that was < 1 MOA. He shoots long distances when hunting 400-500+ yrds at times. He got caught in a big temp swing when a front came in. He said he could his bullets impacting short of his target by a large margin, were not even close when the temp was around 35F. I looked up the reported temp sensitivity on RL22 and it's almost 2 fps/F. I've heard reports that some of RL temp stable powders are rated at 50F and cooler. So if over 50F you get a larger velocity change.
 
100 deg heat + excessive shoulder bump + new brass + Savage firing pin slop = blown primers

Or, 100 deg heat + Savage firing pin slop = blown primers

Can you post pictures of your cases?
 
So the OP is talking about a belted 7mm mag. The shoulder does not control headspace so excessive should bump would have to reduce case capacity by a meaningful amount. That's so overwhelming large I cant see it. I do hear of 20 to 30 thow over sizes in 30/30 but in 7mm wow.
 
lordpaxman said:
I was lurking on this thread since I had blown primers once during a .243 workup. I thought I was following until your last post where you say both Federal and Hornady brass have blown primers but the primer pocket is different. By any chance do you have pictures?

This was from the article:

“How do you tell the difference? Hoffman explained with a blown primer, you'll generally see a lot of soot or powder residue around the primer pocket. A more definitive determination is to see if the primer will fit back into its pocket. In the case of a dropped primer, it won't because the case didn't expand due to high pressure. A blown primer will fit back into the pocket, which expanded due to excessive pressure.”

Can anyone clarify what is a “dropped” primer is? In any case, seems like @Wesson0122 has both cases (sic).


You can always refrigerate your cartridges overnight, transport them in a cooler and that’ll put them around 40F. Good luck!
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I only had blown primers on the Hornady, not the federal. I did not have any probs with dropped primers. Just blown. Good idea with the refrig rounds though
 
AJC1 said:
So the OP is talking about a belted 7mm mag. The shoulder does not control headspace so excessive should bump would have to reduce case capacity by a meaningful amount. That's so overwhelming large I cant see it. I do hear of 20 to 30 thow over sizes in 30/30 but in 7mm wow.
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Posted the pics
 
murf said:
are you leaving your ammo out in the sun? that right there can run pressures up a bunch. are you letting the barrel cool down between shots? on a hundred degree day, the barrel heats up really fast. if you can't keep your hand on the barrel (down by the action) then it is too hot. are you leaving a round in the chamber between shots? leaving a round in the chamber for a minute will heat the round to barrel temperature in an instant. brass is an excellent conductor of heat.

so, cover your ammo, cover your gun when not shooting, don't leave a round in the chamber any longer than necessary, cool down the barrel between shots and enjoy the day shooting.

luck,

murf
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I understand where your coming from, but no, didn't leave anything in the sun. Shot from a covered shooting bench. The rounds where in a mcm case between shots (also on the covered bench). Plus I only shot 3 rounds on the two separate days so the barrel never had a chance to hear up
 
So I'm going to recommend that you reduce your load by a significant amount and if you have a much softer primer start with that for testing not for accuracy but for pressure. The softer primer will give you better indications of pressure and after you get it sorted out you can shift back to the harder primer for greater protection. In a magnum I dont know what that primer is as the are all thicker than standard
 
Right now, the cases are seeing ejection extrusion, It ain't a primer problem,
(and primers are no good for diagnosis much short of OMG pressure anyway)

You're working at the 70-75ksia level -- whatever the combined cause.
At that temp, case, powder, and powder lot, ....drop 4grains
 
Check the LOT # of your RL22.

Several years ago, there was a RECALL of specific lot#’s due to exactly what you’re seeing.
The Hercules web site has the specific lot#’s listed. (It’s #25083).
May be a bad batch of powder.
 
GooseGestapo said:
Check the LOT # of your RL22.

Several years ago, there was a RECALL of specific lot#’s due to exactly what you’re seeing.
The Hercules web site has the specific lot#’s listed. (It’s #25083).
May be a bad batch of powder.
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Wow really. Hmm thanks I'll scope that out
 
Wesson0122 said:
I understand where your coming from, but no, didn't leave anything in the sun. Shot from a covered shooting bench. The rounds where in a mcm case between shots (also on the covered bench). Plus I only shot 3 rounds on the two separate days so the barrel never had a chance to hear up
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good deal. not everyone understands about leaving guns and ammo out in the sun and its affect on pressures and accuracy.

murf
 
.
MEHavey said:
At that temp, case, powder, and powder lot, ....drop 4grains
Click to expand...

Yep. Or... Change powder.

If you have a bunch of RL22 that you really want/need to use, then changing powder might not make sense. And if you don't already have another suitable powder on hand, you might not be able to locate any in the current market.

But shooting is a confidence game. RL22 has given you problems. When you have that antelope in your sights with RL22 under that Berger, will there be a question in the back of your mind of what will happen when you press the trigger?
 
climbnjump said:
.

Yep. Or... Change powder.

If you have a bunch of RL22 that you really want/need to use, then changing powder might not make sense. And if you don't already have another suitable powder on hand, you might not be able to locate any in the current market.

But shooting is a confidence game. RL22 has given you problems. When you have that antelope in your sights with RL22 under that Berger, will there be a question in the back of your mind of what will happen when you press the trigger?
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If he does a complete fresh load development then the problem should resolve in his mind. The testing during development would clear any concerns I had.
 
I had a similar problem with my 22-250 a few yrs ago. Headspace was the problem and also found my sizing was a tad out. But after 45 yrs of shooting I guess there could be issues. But check the headspace it only takes a minute and no cost.
 
@Wesson0122 You're using the same type powder as a you've used in the past for this load. Do you remember if you started on a new jug when this started happenin ?
 
Don't know if it's been asked or tried but have you tried factory ammo? That gun in the avatar is the one I had trouble with. Can't remember if it blew new ammo but it blew out primers with brand new brass. Head space try it you'll like it. I see a lot of ideas about the loads and powder, I went below minimum and it still did it.Very frustrating.
 
jonb32248 said:
Don't know if it's been asked or tried but have you tried factory ammo? That gun in the avatar is the one I had trouble with. Can't remember if it blew new ammo but it blew out primers with brand new brass. Head space try it you'll like it. I see a lot of ideas about the loads and powder, I went below minimum and it still did it.Very frustrating.
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I have shot factory ammo through the rifle with no problems
 
I did find along with the headspace being off in my rifle my full size die needed to be adjusted or reset. After all the die was set up in the '80's. I took my gun to Bass Pro not knowing anybody here to ck headspace. In 5 min. he found it was out. He originally said it would be $120. to fix it and 6 weeks but 2 wks later had it done and charged me $60. But I keep saying toget the headspace ck'd only because it will eliminate that as a cause. In my unprofessional opinion I'm not convinced it's a powder load problem, just seems to easy to blame that as your issue.Do the easy things first then worry about the more complex and time consuming fixes.Wish it was easier and a quick answer. It took me months to find the answer. Guys over on The Firearms Forum were my biggest help and sent me in the right direction. Hope this helps and you get things sorted out soon.
 
jonb32248 said:
I did find along with the headspace being off in my rifle my full size die needed to be adjusted or reset. After all the die was set up in the '80's. I took my gun to Bass Pro not knowing anybody here to ck headspace. In 5 min. he found it was out. He originally said it would be $120. to fix it and 6 weeks but 2 wks later had it done and charged me $60. But I keep saying toget the headspace ck'd only because it will eliminate that as a cause. In my unprofessional opinion I'm not convinced it's a powder load problem, just seems to easy to blame that as your issue.Do the easy things first then worry about the more complex and time consuming fixes.Wish it was easier and a quick answer. It took me months to find the answer. Guys over on The Firearms Forum were my biggest help and sent me in the right direction. Hope this helps and you get things sorted out soon.
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Thanks
 
Wesson0122 said:
Hmmmm, honestly I'm not sure. Got two different open jugs of RL22.
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Like others have said, you need to back off and work your way up again.

It's also possible your two jugs are two different lots of powder, or both are different lots than what you've used before. One if not both of them may be a little hotter than the lot you developed the load with.

It's always a good idea to back off a couple of grains and work your way back up when switching lots of powder.

I would back off and load a few rounds from each jug and check the velocity of each. This may tell you something
 
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