1917 Enfield or Remington 700ADL

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Any chance of some photos of the P-14 or Trapdoor? With old military rifles, much of their historical attraction is connected with their original appearance.

The barrelled action on my own Winchester-made P-14 was likely placed into a cut-down target or sporter stock for a good part of its life; it is stamped Not English Make on the barrel, so at some point after military service it was sold on the UK commercial market. It likely served with the Home Guard before that, and perhaps as a training rifle during WWI. After I bought it I replaced some of the military hardware and added a new-made Italian stock purchased from GPC to return it to military configuration. https://www.gunpartscorp.com/products/1571830B

It lacks the correct markings for an original Weedon repair replacement stock, but I just wanted it to look period, not deceive anyone.

numrichstock.jpg

Be advised that P-14s were made at three US factories, and parts do not freely interchange between the three makers. For more general history on the Pattern 14, I highly recommend this video:



FWIW, I paid $400 for basically a barrelled action in original condition with a very good bore -- I replaced most of the stock furniture that it came with, so I'm probably about out a total of about $800 by now.
 
Jbird45 said:
They are asking $1200 total. $300 for the Enfield, $900 for the Springfield.

There isn't a limit, just an unhappy wife if I go home and tell her I am buying 2 more guns.
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Ignorance is bliss. After I took over paying the bills and managing our joint accounts, and as long as we stayed in the black, she stopped asking and I stopped telling. Start with the P-14 -- $300 is an easier amount to hide.

BTW, when I was in my late teens my dad finally showed me three milsurp rifles (a No.4 Lee Enfield, an 1893 Spanish Mauser and a postwar Czech Mauser K98k) he'd purchased from Interarmco decades earlier and hid from mom. They stayed married until death, over 60 years -- the system works.
 
The rifle you refer to as a M1917 in .303 British is most likely a P(attern) 14 rifle, made by US manufacturers and adopted by the British Government in 1914 as an auxiliary rifle to the SMLE. It is somewhat a collector's item (depending on condition and degree of originality). The .303 British round might seem to be antiquated (dating from 1888 or so) but it will suitably kill anything in the contiguous 48 states - with use on large dangerous bear charging not recommended. Certainly anything normally.
If not sporterized past recognition or rusty or otherwise faulty, $300.00 is fairly cheap.
The Springfield you seem to appreciate, so I'll leave it alone. Other than to say the .45-70 round, even at trapdoor pressures, will kill most commonly hunted game as well; possibly at shorter ranges.
More or less current Remington rifles are replaceable.
 
$300 for an unsporterized Pattern 14 Enfield is suspiciously low (even considering the varnished stock). What else is wrong with it?

In my experience, Pattern 14's in really good condition are hard to find. (Much more so than U.S. Model 1917's.) You can find ones that have been buggered up in a variety of ways.
 
AlexanderA said:
$300 for an unsporterized Pattern 14 Enfield is suspiciously low (even considering the varnished stock). What else is wrong with it?

In my experience, Pattern 14's in really good condition are hard to find. (Much more so than U.S. Model 1917's.) You can find ones that have been buggered up in a variety of ways.
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As far as I'm aware the only thing is the varnished stock. It has good rifling too
 
You really should ignore me. I’m definitely an enabler!

I vote keep the Remington, buy both of the milsurps!

The most accurate rifle I own is a Remington 700ADL in .22-250. Sub-half MOA with premium handloads.
I also have a 1917 Eddystone. Heavy beast, but almost as accurate as my 1943 O3A3 Springfield.
But my favorite (aside the Garands...) is my 1943 #4Mk1 SMLE.

I’ve never seen a “shootable” Trapdoor at the price you’re offered.
Jump on them! I paid almost $800 for my 1917 at the CMP.
 
Jbird45 said:
They are asking $1200 total. $300 for the Enfield, $900 for the Springfield.

I love the trigger on the Remington, but I don't shoot it much. I take it coyote hunting and that's about it.
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Buy the Enfield, look for some other rifle in 45-70. The trapdoor was never a particularly good rifle, not strong.
 
Jack Hinson said:
Buy the Enfield, look for some other rifle in 45-70. The trapdoor was never a particularly good rifle, not strong.
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I would buy the Enfield in a heartbeat for $300. As for the Trapdoor, you would be buying this as a collectible, not necessarily for shooting. As for safety, they're OK if you stick to light loads. Factory .45-70 is loaded to low pressures just for this reason.
 
A caution about the Trapdoor. Check the bore for condition and size, slug the barrel if possible. Some of those rifles needed larger cast bullets than the usual for modern guns. Over the years I've seen reports about barrels that slugged out at .463 or more. I really liked the way the rifle balanced and I love the cartridge but sold my Trapdoor for modern ones (Pedersoli Rolling Block and a H&R Buffalo Classic) that could handle smokeless and had a true .458 bore.

Jeff
 
Jbird45 said:
It is not sporterized. It has a varnished stock though
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troy fairweather said:
That can be stripped
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I've done that. It's not that hard if you're not in a hurry.

Creed Bennett said:
Jbird45, thank the Lord I don’t have that problem. Mine asks what I bought and I show it to her. She either likes it and asks to see it or wrinkles up her nose and says it’s ugly.
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Yeah, I hear wives can be funny about this stuff.

Jbird45 said:
If I were to strip it, what would I use for the correct finish?
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I'd say Boiled Linseed Oil. I've heard about it a lot of times for gun stocks... it was a big improvement on an ax handle I refinished.

Jbird45 said:
And I may be able to keep all 3, but if it came down to keep 2 lose 1 I was wondering what everyone's thoughts were. I am assuming the Remington is the least desireble of the group, but maybe there was something I was missing. I also didn't know being the Enfield was refinished at one point if that was a deal breaker.
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I'd say get those, or at least the Enfield, and then determine which is your least favorite. I wouldn't worry about the refinish on the Enfield, but that's one guy's opinion.

Jbird45 said:
The trigger pull on the Remington I have is amazing. It is also very accurate.

I don't use it much though. The thing is a screamer and I use it sparingly hoping to preserve the barrel as long as I can.

I can't say I have a huge passion for military rifles, but I really do like the Trapdoor. I think it's really cool. And someone else pointed out that the Enfield is a good deal. And I do like the look of the Enfield.

I will have to covertly acquire all 3 I guess
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Have you thought of handloading your .22-250? If you have a twist rate between 1:10 and 1:7, you can load heavier/longer bullets at slower velocities... won't scream and burn your barrel so fast.

The Enfield and Trapdoor are both cool rifles and you might enjoy shooting them.

At this point, I can't tell whether the Enfield is a U.S. 1917 in .30-06 or a British Pattern of 1914 in .303, but it's the same rifle chambered for its respective country's service cartridge. The rear sight has a 300yd battlesight, then, IIRC, 100yds and up on the ladder. (I understand it's the same rear sight as issued on the U.S. BAR). Either is useful.
 
mustanger98 said:
I've done that. It's not that hard if you're not in a hurry.



Yeah, I hear wives can be funny about this stuff.



I'd say Boiled Linseed Oil. I've heard about it a lot of times for gun stocks... it was a big improvement on an ax handle I refinished.

True oil makes a very hard finish if you like shiny. And if it gets scratched, a light pass with steel wool and it refinishes like new. But it requires a lot of coats.


I'd say get those, or at least the Enfield, and then determine which is your least favorite. I wouldn't worry about the refinish on the Enfield, but that's one guy's opinion.



Have you thought of handloading your .22-250? If you have a twist rate between 1:10 and 1:7, you can load heavier/longer bullets at slower velocities... won't scream and burn your barrel so fast.

The Enfield and Trapdoor are both cool rifles and you might enjoy shooting them.

At this point, I can't tell whether the Enfield is a U.S. 1917 in .30-06 or a British Pattern of 1914 in .303, but it's the same rifle chambered for its respective country's service cartridge. The rear sight has a 300yd battlesight, then, IIRC, 100yds and up on the ladder. (I understand it's the same rear sight as issued on the U.S. BAR). Either is useful.
Click to expand...
 
All good advise. Me I,d grab the P-14. Super strong rifle and the .303 is a solid cartridge. I have a nice original one made down the road from me at Remington in Ilion, NY. Funny I just saw this thread. I drove past there around 12:30 today on the road for work and just got home a little while ago. Good luck.
 
Howdy

I have to tell you, the three rifles you are talking about are all night and day different from each other.

I don't know anything about your 22-250 Remington rifle other than that is a screamingly fast cartridge.

I do know a bit about Trapdoors, and I know a bit less about Lee-Enfields.

They are very different.

This is my Springfield Trapdoor. A model 1873, it left the factory in 1883. There are those who shoot Trapdoors with Smokeless powder, I am not one of them. My 45-70 Trapdoor only sees ammunition loaded with Black Powder. If you want a Trapdoor, I have to ask what do you want to do with it? A fun range toy, I don't shoot it very often at the range. It usually gets brought along once a year when we do the Cowboy Action Black Powder match and we shoot our single shot rifles along with our regular CAS rifles, pistols, and shotguns. I really like shooting my old Trapdoor, but like I say I never shoot it with ammo loaded with Smokeless powder. These are old guns, and you really should have someone familiar with them look it over before you buy. A lot of them have worn breeches and are not safe to shoot.

poiGjuc6j.jpg




I know less about Lee Enfields than I do about Trapdoors. There are a whole lot of different types, I do know that. This one is a Lee/Enfield S.H.T.L.E. III*,made at the Lithgow armory in 1919. This is the classic World War One pattern. A reliable infantry rifle, not as strong or advanced as the German Mauser, but still a good rifle in the hands of someone who knows how to use it.

pmif0e0ej.jpg




My point is the three rifles you are talking about are as different as an apple, a grapefruit, and a banana. It is my opinion you should give some thought to what you want to do with these rifles before buying them.
 
Driftwood Johnson said:
Howdy

I have to tell you, the three rifles you are talking about are all night and day different from each other.

I don't know anything about your 22-250 Remington rifle other than that is a screamingly fast cartridge.

I do know a bit about Trapdoors, and I know a bit less about Lee-Enfields.

They are very different.

This is my Springfield Trapdoor. A model 1873, it left the factory in 1883. There are those who shoot Trapdoors with Smokeless powder, I am not one of them. My 45-70 Trapdoor only sees ammunition loaded with Black Powder. If you want a Trapdoor, I have to ask what do you want to do with it? A fun range toy, I don't shoot it very often at the range. It usually gets brought along once a year when we do the Cowboy Action Black Powder match and we shoot our single shot rifles along with our regular CAS rifles, pistols, and shotguns. I really like shooting my old Trapdoor, but like I say I never shoot it with ammo loaded with Smokeless powder. These are old guns, and you really should have someone familiar with them look it over before you buy. A lot of them have worn breeches and are not safe to shoot.

View attachment 936042




I know less about Lee Enfields than I do about Trapdoors. There are a whole lot of different types, I do know that. This one is a Lee/Enfield S.H.T.L.E. III*,made at the Lithgow armory in 1919. This is the classic World War One pattern. A reliable infantry rifle, not as strong or advanced as the German Mauser, but still a good rifle in the hands of someone who knows how to use it.

View attachment 936043




My point is the three rifles you are talking about are as different as an apple, a grapefruit, and a banana. It is my opinion you should give some thought to what you want to do with these rifles before buying them.
Click to expand...

Yes all three rifles are very different. Even if the Springfield is not ideal, I still love the history of it.

The Enfield is a very cool rifle too. I really like the looks of it. I don't desire to have the best of the best or a big fancy collection of rifles, but I love the history and if I get to put a round or 2 downrange with it every once in a while even better.

As an update, I sat down and talked with my wife and I am able to keep all three. I will be going to get the Springfield and Enfield sometime soon
 
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