1917 Enfield Remington - Screws

[wmgeorge]

Ok I just purchased off GB and do not have yet a Sporterized (sp) 1917 Enfield Remington made. Someone has updated the sights and added a nice recoil pad, which I am grateful for having not to do myself. It must be a good shooter otherwise there would have not been all the added on, plus the seller said the bore was very good.

From what I can tell the rear screw for the trigger guard magazine plate assy is missing and I assume broken off inside the receiver. Front or longer screw is intact. I am petty sure I can get the old screw out, and would like to order it now, before the gun gets here. So do I just order both screws and plan on replacing both or does the rear one always the one with a problem??

Suggestions and advice welcome.

 

[AlexanderA]

Both guard screws are needed for properly bedding the action to the stock. I don't see how it could be a "good shooter" with the rear guard screw missing.

Some sporterized Enfields have had the trigger guard straightened, in which case they need a longer front guard screw.

Guard screws are commonly available, and cheap.

(My only interest in sporterized Enfields is in restoring them to their original military configuration.)

 

[wmgeorge]

I ordered both last night. I looked at the parts list and drawing it seems maybe the magazine box or other parts might be holding it in place?? Ok I think I screwed up.... literally. What I was looking at in the picture of the rifle, was the bottom plate of the magazine box, the cover. It had a hole in it, back near the trigger. That hole looked like a place for a screw??

 

[AlexanderA]

What I was looking at in the picture of the rifle, was the bottom plate of the magazine box, the cover. It had a hole in it, back near the trigger. That hole looked like a place for a screw??

That hole is for the floorplate release. You insert the tip of a bullet to release the floorplate (and allow you to unload the magazine).

The rear guard screw is behind the trigger guard.

 

[boom boom]

That is the magazine release--the 1917 is a modified Mauser design which includes a releasable floorplate. The guard screws are in front on the mag box and at the very rear of the trigger guard.

 

[boom boom]

That hole is for the floorplate release. You insert the tip of a bullet to release the floorplate (and allow you to unload the magazine).

The rear guard screw is behind the trigger guard.

You beat me to it--I need to speed up my typing.

 

[wmgeorge]

Ok, Thank You!!! I am partly educated now. That area looked a little rusty so I assumed it was a screw hole.... I wonder if all it needs is a little wire brushing to look nicer. The rest of the gun looked like someone had taken care of it.

 

[AlexanderA]

Is that yellow tape residue on the floorplate? You can dissolve that with alcohol or mineral spirits.

It looks to me that that's original finish on the trigger guard and bolt (whatever we can see in the picture). Do not take a wire brush to that. Depending on what the rest of the gun looks like, this may be a candidate for restoration.

 

[theotherwaldo]

If they've "updated" the sights then they've probably reshaped the receiver to the Model 30 profile and made it uneconomical to restore to the P-17 configuration.
I've got two of these faux Model 30s (scoped and unscoped) and rather like them.
So - just because Bubba or someone more professional has modified the gun doesn't mean it is ruined.

 

[boom boom]

If they've "updated" the sights then they've probably reshaped the receiver to the Model 30 profile and made it uneconomical to restore to the P-17 configuration.
I've got two of these faux Model 30s (scoped and unscoped) and rather like them.
So - just because Bubba or someone more professional has modified the gun doesn't mean it is ruined.

Yes, they make a very good sporter for even heavy loads and have an excellent thumb safety that is preferable to the m98. You see quite a few receivers that have had the rear ears of the battlesights milled off on gunbroker. The better jobs contour the receiver to resemble the Model 30. The worse ones just mill off the ears to make a flat for scoping and make it an awkward looking rifle.

 

[wmgeorge]

Well the rifle came in Thursday and its perfect. Only issue is someone had added Lyman peep sight in the past the the aperture was broken so I ordered ALL the parts for the windage and they will be here next week. The receiver is not a hack job. its shaped so well I would almost say it looks like it never had the OEM rear sight?? The barrel and receiver looks to have been parkerized sometime in the past and the barrel is perfect inside. So will it shoot? I won't know until late next week. The SN is 408 623 so if some could tell me where to research it I would.

OK a little research and this is marked Remington and it looks like a Model 30 S or SX its got either a 22 or 24 inch barrel depending on where you measuring from.

 

[wmgeorge]

Ok here are a few pictures, parts on order for the sight.

 

[AlexanderA]

Ouch. What they did to the issue rear sight precludes its restoration to the original military configuration.

You'll just have to live with it as a sporter. That being the case, I would consider getting a more appropriate sporter stock for it. Hell, just go ahead and have it drilled and tapped for scope mounts.

 

[NIGHTLORD40K]

The finish on the barrel doesn't match the receiver, meaning it has probably been rebarrelled. I don't suppose the manufacturers stamp and date are still intact near the muzzle? '17s with JA (Johnson Automatics) or H S(High Standard) barrels are notorious for being over-torqued resulting in cracked receivers. If it is sporting one of these barrels, might want to have it magnafluxed before shooting.

 

[AlexanderA]

? '17s with JA (Johnson Automatics) or H S(High Standard) barrels are notorious for being over-torqued resulting in cracked receivers. If it is sporting one of these barrels, might want to have it magnafluxed before shooting.

That seems to be a problem only with Eddystone marked receivers. Since this is a marked Remington, he's in the clear.

It's not that the replacement barrels were over-torqued. The original barrels were over-torqued. The cracking took place when the original barrels were removed, without a relief cut being made on a lathe.

I have a Winchester with a JA barrel, and it's perfectly OK. All my Eddystones have their original barrels, and they're OK too.

 

[wmgeorge]

I am a little confused, IF there was a military issued rear sight on this rifle it was most skillfully removed as to leave NO tooling marks what so ever? I did not purchase the gun to restore, It looks in my research online as these were made and sold with the Lyman peep sight installed and the receiver and barrel look to have refinished at the same time. The barrel has more of a anti-glare texture, whereas the receiver looks like a normal finish.

 

[AlexanderA]

I am a little confused, IF there was a military issued rear sight on this rifle it was most skillfully removed as to leave NO tooling marks what so ever? I did not purchase the gun to restore, It looks in my research online as these were made and sold with the Lyman peep sight installed and the receiver and barrel look to have refinished at the same time. The barrel has more of a anti-glare texture, whereas the receiver looks like a normal finish.

As issued, these rifles had prominent "ears" at the back of the receiver to protect the aperture rear sight, which was adjustable for elevation but not for windage. It was actually a pretty good sight, as far as military sights go. Your rifle later (in civilian hands) had these ears milled off. That makes its sporterization irreversible. It's true that the milling job appears to have been well done.

The Lyman rear sight was definitely not original with the gun. It was an aftermarket replacement.

The original finish on '17 Enfields was a dull, dark bluing (Dulite?), like what we see on the receiver of your rifle. WW2 replacement barrels were Parkerized. If the receiver was not refinished at the time the gun was rebarreled, there's a visible contrast in finishes. (If the gun is still in military configuration, you only see this at the muzzle end of the barrel -- the rest of the barrel is hidden under the wood.) I can see the contrast in your pictures.

You have a replacement military barrel, judging from the flaming bomb and eagle head markings over the chamber area. I would be curious to see a picture of the muzzle end of the barrel, including the front sight and any markings behind the front sight. That would tell us a lot. Was the barrel shortened? Was a commercial front sight fitted?

 

[NIGHTLORD40K]

I am a little confused, IF there was a military issued rear sight on this rifle it was most skillfully removed as to leave NO tooling marks what so ever? I did not purchase the gun to restore, It looks in my research online as these were made and sold with the Lyman peep sight installed and the receiver and barrel look to have refinished at the same time. The barrel has more of a anti-glare texture, whereas the receiver looks like a normal finish.

Your rifle was made in August of 1918, and most certainly was finished with military sights and protective ears.

 

[wmgeorge]

Like I said in another post, the barrel is either 22 or 24 inch depending on where your measuring from? The front sight is professionally installed and the barrel is crowned. Bubba did not have a hand in any of this, I would say a gunsmith installed both sights.

 

[NIGHTLORD40K]

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Like I said in another post, the barrel is either 22 or 24 inch depending on where your measuring from? The front sight is professionally installed and the barrel is crowned. Bubba did not have a hand in any of this, I would say a gunsmith installed both sights.

The BATF (and Army Ordnance) measured the barrel length from the bolt face to the crown. In fact, they run a graduated rod down the barrel until it rests against the bolt (hammer/striker cocked!).

The stock 1917 barrel was 26" measured in this way. If yours has been shortened, then they have likely cut away the barrel makers mark and date:

Still, these are very nice rifles, and your conversion looks well done. I'm sure you will enjoy shooting it when your sight parts come in.

 

[boom boom]

Parkerizing was authorized for the 1917 Rifle in August or September 1918 according to Stratton. At that point, you will see the older blackish dark gray parkerizing formula used on parts such as barrels, bolt stops, etc. and possibly some receivers depending on who you believe. It can be difficult to tell from the dull blued finish that Alexander A talks about above and this is because it was applied to some parts in progress that had been polished for bluing. The P14's for the Brits were all blued in varying shades of blackish blue during WWI.

The re arsenaled 1917 during WWII refurbishing resemble WWII mfg. 1903's or Garands in using the lighter gray parkerizing which after being soaked in cosmolene has a grayish green cast that is distinctive.

 

[wmgeorge]

Thanks for the help guys, I got exactly what I wanted except its in much, much better condition than I expected. So now if it shoots as good as it looks and with the new barrel it should.

 

[wmgeorge]

So How does it Shoot? After spending way to long revamping the heating and cooling system on my 4 seasons porch I finally got out to the Range. I wanted to see if it would shoot and not blow up and just get something on the target after my Lyman rear sight repair. I sighted in at home with my laser bore sight and the results are posted. Shot at 25 yards 6 rounds and nothing changed since my bore sighting at home.

 

[theotherwaldo]

So, basically you have a Remington Model 30.
Practically the first civilian .30-06.
Darn good guns.

 

[adcoch1]

You have a nice sporter there. I have had two, and both were quite accurate, as was my 1921 manufacture eddystone. The eddystone was military dressed and unmolested. It was shockingly accurate. Miss all of them and wish I hadn't sold them. Good luck with your fine rifle!