Light 38spl loads

Welcome to THR!

I can't help with HP38 other than to note that two grains seems like a very light load. Hodgdon lists 3.5 as a starting load, 869 FPS. I understand that HP38 may be W231, which I've used a lot. If nothing else, load data for HP38 and W231 is exactly identical. For my money 231 is a great mid-range powder, but isn't fast enough to be ideal for the lightest loads in the .38 Special. I'd be concerned that two grains of it could result in stuck bullets. In my opinion, Bullseye is the best bet for these loads, if you can get any.

The 148 grain HBWC is the ideal bullet for .38 Special target loads. I hate casting them, and have never been able to make my homemade ones shoot as well as Hornady's dry lubed version. Those are my all-time favorite store-bought bullet. It's exceedingly rare to find a gun that won't shoot them well, and they are a pleasure to work with.

I would not try to seat a HBWC far out of the case. It is unnecessary, possibly counterproductive, and when experimenting with very small charges of powder is even more likely to cause stuck bullets. When I load wadcutters with a crimping groove, I will either crimp in the groove, or flush seat and crimp over the top. I can't recall having seen an HBWC with a crimp groove, though I am sure they exist. All of the ones I load get flush seated and crimped over the top.

Good luck, and please let us know how it goes!

<edit> Looking back through my notes, I do see that I have used 3.1 grains of W231 with good results, and that it apparently is a somewhat popular load - I got it online.

I would not start that low. Start at the min and work down. It's best to run them over a crony so you have an idea when your velocity is down to 600 . You run the risk of sticking a bullet if you go lower. You also need to make sure you don't loose the skirt in the barrel causing a obstruction. You also want to test powder position forward and back. Some powders will have greatly reduced velocity when forward the reason for the test. I use to shoot the 147 LSWC all the time, have moved up to the 158gr.

Absolutely do not load any rounds with 2.0 grains of HP38.
That is too light a load. You are asking for a stuck bullet in the barrel.

There is no advantage to seating a HBWC bullet out. Seat it flush with the case mouth, the same way a million reloaders have done for the past century.

Starter52 said:

Absolutely do not load any rounds with 2.0 grains of HP38.

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This is true. If you stick a bullet in the barrel, the follow-up shot will rip the gun apart. Then your Colt will be worthless.



For a 148gr DEWC set flush, I load around 3.3gr of W231. I highly prefer the coated 148's from MBC.

Starter52 said:

There is no advantage to seating a HBWC bullet out. Seat it flush with the case mouth, the same way a million reloaders have done for the past century.

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In fact, the advantage goes to the flush-seated DEWC. With low level target loads, the reloader needs to consume as much space inside the voluminous 38Spcl case as possible to prevent the loads from becoming "position sensitive".

Hope this helps.

I don't shoot any hollow base WCs, but I do shoot a ton of 148g DEWCs and with those, my go to is 3.1g of Tight Group and the WC seated all the way to the final crimp line. Those are very light shooting and chrono'd at ave of 803 fps from a 4" barrel. I run these in my 67-1 and 627 all the time, they're very accurate.

Your 2.0 gr load, as mentioned above is too light. You can't get away from physics and a "light" but consistent load isn't going to harm your gun (unless it has been fired several thousand rounds with hot loads prior to you getting it). I normally don't recommend any "forum loads" but the well known and popular load of 3.0 of Bullseye or it's equivalent in W231, is as low as I'd go. For a 2" barrel gun "closer to the forcing cone" won't make any noticeable difference in accuracy or "gun longevity". I experimented with seating depth with 38 WCs and 38 HBWCs, everything from seating flush to as long as possible in the cylinder of my 3 revolvers in 38 Special and 357 Magnum and found no difference in accuracy...

Filler is a real pain, and sometimes causes more problems than it attempts to solve. I find it completely unnecessary for any sort of a reasonable handgun load.

In my opinion you are on the right track with your plan to load 3.5 and work down. I expect you will have good results.

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Bill M. said:

I think "working down" is just a plain bad idea.

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Why?

Also, what is a "BBHB"?

Yeah, I changed my mind on that one. Do what you want. Berrys Bullets Hollow Base Wadcutter thick plated. I shoot them in .357 cases so as not to crud up the cylinder.

Hodgdon data HP38
HP38=W231, same powder, different label, HP38 usually seems a bit less expensive
So if you see W231 data it can be used for HP38
(and some point in time back when they may have been different, but they have been the same for years)

.38 Special
148 GR. HDY LHBWC Hodgdon HP-38 .358" 1.160" 3.5 869 14,200 CUP 4 956 15,900 CUP
Start 3.5 MAX 4gr

Now whats interesting is here is the 357 data (lower than the .38 data???)
148 GR. HDY LHBWC Hodgdon HP-38 .358" 1.290" 3 845 14,300 CUP 3.4 908 17,600 CUP
Start 3 MAX 3.4

Lyman 50 shows Start 3.7 MAX 4.2 with a 150gr wadcutter in .38 (not a hollow base WC)
Older Winchester data (W231)


.357 mag - shows no start charge just a MAX



Having said that 2gr seems to low for a start charge to me, I would go ahead and use the .357 data and start at 3 or maybe a hair under

That is what I saw that sorta changed my opinion. But...the data is for different construction bullets. From my reading and use of the Berrys Bullets the Hornady data is made super light to keep from blowing the skirt off the bullet. The Berrys bullets are made tougher and they recommend them to be kept under 1250. So that might or might not explain the difference in data. I expect the old Bullseye shooters used the Horandy and Red Dot or Bulleseye. I have only loaded solid wadcutters and the HB wadcutters. I see no difference in performance.
None of this really affects the OP. Just beware of the dangers of going too light.

Here is data from Hornady's 10th edition handbook of reloading with their 148 hollow base wadcutter.

OAL = 1.180", so just a little bit of bullet sticking from the case.

Their start charge with 231 (same as HP-38) is 2.2 grains for a speed of 550 fps from a 4" S&W Model 15.
Their max charge is 3.5 grains for 800 fps.

The following is my opinion:

If you load with the bullet seated longer you'll get a rapid drop in pressure and, combined with the 2.2 grains of 231, run the risk of a stuck bullet. So I'd advise to load them as indicated by Hornady. If you want to load them longer, increase the powder charge.

If you load them that light, watch for a stuck bullet, and to 'test' the load for safety issues, try a bunch (10-20 rounds) with the powder forward for position sensitivity and shoot them over a chronograph. The powder forward condition produces the lowest pressure and speed. You don't want them to be any lower than ~500 fps (4" barrel) in that condition. Then try a bunch and shoot them normally over a chronograph.

Here's the web link to the Hodgdon Reloading Data Center, already have pistol selected. You can work through the various pull-down menus to select cartridge, projectile, powder brand, and specific powder - such as HP38. Then click on "get data"

https://www.hodgdonreloading.com/data/pistol

I agree wholeheartedly with previous posters saying avoid the filler. I've seen all kinds of fillers in 38special from people looking for the lightest possible recoiling load, some will work but it's a pita to work with, some fillers I've seen used are downright crazy in the extra effort it takes to load and the way they can accelerate the need for cleaning a gun.

The following should not be regarded as advice to proper loading technique, as pressures may be hard to calculate!

I load some really really light 38s for my .357, I wont go in to specific loads here, and the following is not something I would recommend to anyone new on reloading, but significantly shortening the oal, you can get away with very small powder charges without running into position sensitivity of the powder in the case, and maintaining very small velocity variation from one round to another.

Using fast powders I've loaded basically 380acp and 38short loads in both 38special and 357mag brass. It will look silly with a 100grain .356 plated hollowpoint seated so far down the case you'll think it's a spent case at first glance, but light and consistent loads can be achieved. No crimp is applied, just pushing back the belling of the case, the right bullet will have the proper amount of tension in the case provided a fast enough powder is choosen. I've loaded 85grain plated HBWC to "clearly see them fly with an arc to the 25yard target"-velocities, but pressure is still pressure, and apart from very low recoil, some of these loads might still run in the normal pressure range.

Trying to reduce pressure too much will almost always result in erratic velocities and incomplete powder burn.

As a new reloader, or one not willing to experiment, published starting loads will be low recoiling enough, and low pressure enough to not having any significant impact on a well built gun.

Again, my opinions, nothing you are likely to find in a reloading manual, and none of it should be taken as a instruction! Stay safe! If there's any interest for it, I could go into more detail about my loads in a new thread.

Dudefromsweden

Edit: even at published starting loads, care should always be taken to thorougly make sure the bullet leaves the barrel, some starting loads really are very very light, and sometimes very very position sensitive in my experience.

Avoid HBWC and DEWC and consider a standard weight SWC or RN bullet. Flush seated WC bullets will often bulge the case as modern brass isn't made for WC bullets.
A 158 grain bullet will shoot closer to point of aim and you can achieve your low pressure light recoil goal with a variety of powders.
A RN bullet mold is a easy bullet to cast and it slips into a revolver really easy if your going to use speed loaders.
I haven't owned a Colt in decades due to the availability of S&W parts and the robust build of Rugers.
Even a light load will wear the lock work of your Colt.

Charges given for a HBWC are low, this WC design does not take a lot of pressure to have the bullet skirt separate and lodge in the barrel. I would not load below or above the load data given for a particular HBWC, even at the upper end of the data the pressure will be low and not hurt your Colt if it is in good order.

It’s hard to beat 2.7-2.8 grains of bullseye with a 148 grain HBWC for a pleasantly shooting .38 special load.

For light plinking loads in my 4" GP100 I use a 12 brinell,158gr. LSWC over 3.4 grains of HP38 in a 357 mag case. Nice light recoil load. Use this data at your own risk.

earplug said:

Avoid HBWC and DEWC and consider a standard weight SWC or RN bullet. Flush seated WC bullets will often bulge the case as modern brass isn't made for WC bullets.
A 158 grain bullet will shoot closer to point of aim and you can achieve your low pressure light recoil goal with a variety of powders.
A RN bullet mold is a easy bullet to cast and it slips into a revolver really easy if your going to use speed loaders.
I haven't owned a Colt in decades due to the availability of S&W parts and the robust build of Rugers.
Even a light load will wear the lock work of your Colt.

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I like round nose bullets. The rest of this post is...odd.

3rdTennCoB said:

Hello all,this is the first handgun cartridge I want to reload for. Just bought a vintage colt cobra and wanna put lots of lead down range with her but want to go easy on her frame so she will last for years

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Welcome to THR!

I have an original Colt King Cobra that I load for. My plinking .38spcl load is 3.9gr of w231 over a 158gr jsp. This is almost 22 like in my gun.

And always verify data with books or manufactures websites.

chris