38spl conundrum!

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Axis II

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I started reloading for a S&W 642 J frame 38spl with Starline brass, CCI SPP, 125gr Berrys RNFP and HP38.

From day one I had issues with rounds not going off and either light firing pin strikes or cratered primers. I tried seating the primer deeper which didn't help, cleaned primer pockets, attempted to uniform them which wouldn't even cut and still 2-3 out of 5 rounds would not fire!

Today I loaded BE86 with those same primers, brass and bullets and ran 25rounds without a single hiccup! I tried HP38 rounds and misfire! I have pulled rounds of HP38 and it looks like its darker than the normal grey/silver color but not burnt.

Any idea what in the world is going on here?

BTW I can put 5 shots with the j frame in a baseball at 20ft. I love BE86 and it shot very well in the 9mm too.
 
For the sake of not making another thread I had a bullet hole with a long maybe 1/2'' rip right next to the bullet hole on the left. Any idea what caused that?
 
Demi-human said:
Paper has grain lines too. Better target backing or stiffer paper may help.

Strange happenings with the HP-Thirty Eight. Some powders need more pressure. I wouldn't think that to be one. Curious indeed. Was it new?
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The powder? Yes, but I cannot remember where I got it! When gander mountain went out of business they clearance powder and I walked out with like 10lbs and squirreled it away. Some of the benchmark I got from them looked and smelled funny but shot ok. It could have been some from there and just bad powder I guess. I couldn't believe that 25rounds all went off with light strikes too. I have never got a full cylinder to fire until today.
 
Try some Federal Primers. If you can't find Federal, try some Winchester. Both are softer than CCI. I have several revolvers with reduced power main springs and I get Light strikes and FTF with CCI primers. I'm betting that will cure the problem. Federal can sometimes be hard to find but Winchester are almost as soft and usually easy to find. I try to keep up with who has Federal in Stock and when they have a sale especially if it includes free Hazmat shipping I try to load up.
 
Very surprising. I use a lot of HP38 in 38 spl and don't have ignition issues ever. Bad powder would be my guess if you are using everything else the same except the powder and curing the problem. Might be worth getting in touch with Hodgdon.
 
Eddietruett said:
Try some Federal Primers. If you can't find Federal, try some Winchester. Both are softer than CCI. I have several revolvers with reduced power main springs and I get Light strikes and FTF with CCI primers. I'm betting that will cure the problem. Federal can sometimes be hard to find but Winchester are almost as soft and usually easy to find. I try to keep up with who has Federal in Stock and when they have a sale especially if it includes free Hazmat shipping I try to load up.
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I will try Winchester cause I can get 100 packs locally. I also tried S&B and same thing with hp38. I do like the accuracy I got with be86 last night so that hp38 may turn into fertilizer.
 
ohihunter2014 said:
I started reloading for a S&W 642 J frame 38spl with Starline brass, CCI SPP, 125gr Berrys RNFP and HP38.

From day one I had issues with rounds not going off and either light firing pin strikes or cratered primers. I tried seating the primer deeper which didn't help, cleaned primer pockets, attempted to uniform them which wouldn't even cut and still 2-3 out of 5 rounds would not fire!

Today I loaded BE86 with those same primers, brass and bullets and ran 25rounds without a single hiccup! I tried HP38 rounds and misfire! I have pulled rounds of HP38 and it looks like its darker than the normal grey/silver color but not burnt.

Any idea what in the world is going on here?

BTW I can put 5 shots with the j frame in a baseball at 20ft. I love BE86 and it shot very well in the 9mm too.
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Were the primers igniting?
 
From your description, it isn't clear whether the primers actually ignited or not. I'm guessing not, since a primer should have enough power to at least push the bullet out of the case.

I can't imagine the different powders having anything to do with whether the primers fire or not, so I am a little confused by that.

Did you try firing the misfire rounds a second time? Sometimes they will go off with a second strike.
 
After my M642 was a few years old, it became erratic in firing ammunition. The ammunition would fire fine in other 38 Special or 357 magnum revolvers so I knew the gun was the problem.

I replaced the main spring and all the problems went away.

If you can fire the ammunition in another gun, you can determine if the gun or the ammunition is the problem.
 
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It might be partly a propellant position problem if too little is used. but still if the primer went off it should have at least pushed the projectile out of the case and into the barrel. If all problems go away with a different propellant then that is most suspect to me. Still, did you try a second strike as mentioned? If it went off then primer seating depth still might be the trouble even though you say they are seated. Trying some of those rounds in a different revolver would be telling as well, this would rule out the revolver if problems moved to the new one. Let us know what you find.
 
Toprudder said:
From your description, it isn't clear whether the primers actually ignited or not. I'm guessing not, since a primer should have enough power to at least push the bullet out of the case.

I can't imagine the different powders having anything to do with whether the primers fire or not, so I am a little confused by that.

Did you try firing the misfire rounds a second time? Sometimes they will go off with a second strike.
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99% of the time they will not go off. CCI and S&B both do this. I had about 40 HP 38 rounds in the case with the BE86 ones and put one in the gun and click. I said yep something is wrong here. With HP38 some that go off have a very large primer strike and some a very light pinhole! With BE86 all were pinholes but all went off.
 
FROGO207 said:
It might be partly a propellant position problem if too little is used. but still if the primer went off it should have at least pushed the projectile out of the case and into the barrel. If all problems go away with a different propellant then that is most suspect to me. Still, did you try a second strike as mentioned? If it went off then primer seating depth still might be the trouble even though you say they are seated. Trying some of those rounds in a different revolver would be telling as well, this would rule out the revolver if problems moved to the new one. Let us know what you find.
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My buddy has a model 10 i will see if i can barrow and see what happens.
 
I also changed grips from boot grips to the larger Hogue grips would this cause issues?
 
Regarding primers; seat them all the way to the bottom of the pocket, and give a little extra "ummmph" to make sure they are correctly seated and disregard "below flush measurements". I've never had a revolver give light strikes (S&&W, Ruger, Taurus [3], Cimarron, High Standard, and a Rossi) and I used a lot of CCI primers

As for your powder, if anything doesn't look, smell or taste right, consider it "iffy". From your description, I'd guess the powder has gone bad, and I might try another different powder...
 
Hunter86004 said:
Easy way to determine if it's a primer problem is to fire some primed brass. If they all produce a good healthy bang, your problem probably lies elsewhere.
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Ah i didn't think to do that! I even picked up Winchester brass thinking it was the brass.
 
mdi said:
Regarding primers; seat them all the way to the bottom of the pocket, and give a little extra "ummmph" to make sure they are correctly seated and disregard "below flush measurements". I've never had a revolver give light strikes (S&&W, Ruger, Taurus [3], Cimarron, High Standard, and a Rossi) and I used a lot of CCI primers

As for your powder, if anything doesn't look, smell or taste right, consider it "iffy". From your description, I'd guess the powder has gone bad, and I might try another different powder...
Click to expand...
I prime on the press and stand up and push pretty hard when seating them and still light strikes. I was going to order a main spring but when 25 rounds of a different powder went bang i said ehh maybe ill wait.

The powder almost looks black and not silvery like other HP38 I've used.
 
You said the primers are not igniting. I can't see a powder change causing primers to fire or not unless one of the powders is contaminated and in turn contaminates the primer.

I have shot 10s of thousands, maybe more of .38 Special rounds using HP-38/W231 and CCI primers without a problem. That includes shooting them in many J frames including a M642 and M442.
 
ArchAngelCD said:
You said the primers are not igniting. I can't see a powder change causing primers to fire or not unless one of the powders is contaminated and in turn contaminates the primer.

I have shot 10s of thousands, maybe more of .38 Special rounds using HP-38/W231 and CCI primers without a problem. That includes shooting them in many J frames including a M642 and M442.
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I pull every round that doesn't go off and the powder isn't burnt. I haven't tried just a primer to see what happens but will do that this week. When the BE86 all went off i blamed the powder. When the HP38 wouldn't go off i blamed the primer.

My plan this week is load 5 cases with cci and s&b primers and see if they fire. If they fire it has to be a powder issue. I will also attempt to fire the Hp38 rounds that are loaded and see what they do and check back with you guys with how many didn't ignite.
 
Try loading the suspect powder in a 9mm along with the be-86 and see if you have the same results. If so I’d definitely fertilize the roses with the bad powder.

Being that the be-86 loads worked fine with the same components and loading procedures, I’d definitely suspect the powder.
 
buy another pound of hp-38. only way to be sure it's the powder.

luck,

murf
 
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