Pistol vs shotgun powders

If you want the right answer, ask Hodgdon.

Rumor is that 571 and HS-7 are the same powder.
https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...-close-powders-under-different-labels.797388/

Winchester had load data for 571 for almost all of their handgun cartridges in their 15th edition reloader's manual.

Shotgun powders are also highly partial to certain gauges of shotgun. That is, a powder that does well in 12ga might not even show data in 16 or 20ga.

Hodgdon may not show any shotgun loads for HP-38, but I bet Winchester has some loads for W231.

I was very curious about this also and there is a lot of conversation on cast bullets about it. One that I was really interested in is Alliance Steel and a lot of people have tested that in Magnum loads

Most of the "Dots" work with both, Unique, Universal, Promo also work.

It costs MONEY to test a powder. If you are marketing shotgun and pistol powders, you can't afford to run load tests on all your powders in all the loadings that they could be useful.
Thus, about 10-15 years ago, many powder companies decided to only test shotgun powders in shotgun loads and only pistol powders in pistol cartridges.
Thus, we have Bullseye for pistols and Red Dot for shotguns.

I've often wondered this also. There are some that are obviously marketed specifically for one or the other, and easy to see why they don't want to spend the time to cross over and work new data.

HP-38 is one that boggles my mind though. It is a very popular pistol powder, been around a long time, and should be simply ideal for heavy 1-1 1/8 oz shotgun applications.

Some that have made the crossover however, are quite useful. Lil gun, Longshot, WSF, and others. Seems to happen more often shotgun to pistol than the other way around. I saw a lot of new data for oddball powders show up during/after the last shortage. Customer requests may have had something to do with this. I ended up going off-book with a couple of shotgun data only powders with good success. I loaded WSH in .38 special cast (.357 mag gun so good safety margin) as WSH was all I could find that 'might' be suitable. I was very satisfied with that load. Also tested Alliant Steel in .41 magnum referencing blue dot data for cast bullets at moderate velocity and pressure. This experiment was less successful. I got poor accuracy and dirty burning as far as I cared to push it. Might have cleaned up at higher pressures, but I didn't feel like pushing that envelope.

I think a lot of it has to do with burn characteristics. Shotguns operate at pretty low pressures, handgun loads not so much. Shotgun loads usually compact the powder under the wad... some powders (like TrailBoss, as an example) might not like that so much. Also, thinking about a shotgun shot charge... one ounce of shot is 437 grains, so there may be issues with pressure spikes trying to shove that much weight out of a long barrel. I would not want to try to push a 400grn bullet with a charge of W231, for example.

Random 8 mentioned .41MAG data for BlueDot (when testing Alliant Steel.) Alliant issued warnings and an outright prohibition against using BlueDot in the .41MAG some years ago. I've used BlueDot in the .41MAG... I still have not only all of my fingers and toes, but the revolver I fired them in... but Alliant obviously found some issue, enough so that they issued a warning against using it. Why the .41 and not .44 or .357? Who knows... but the point is, there is/was some combination of the load that had problems. I suspect this is the same thing with data not being available for some 'handgun' powders not being recommended for shotgun.

Further, handgun powders have become very specific... with changes in flash coatings, copper fouling, and more efficient burns, something that a shotgun doesn't really need. I also think it's saving marketing and research dollars... if you are a trap shooter, you've been using X powder for years... why would you bother to find a different powder all of a sudden?

AJC1 said:

I was very curious about this also and there is a lot of conversation on cast bullets about it. One that I was really interested in is Alliance Steel and a lot of people have tested that in Magnum loads

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WE do not recommend Steel(R) powder for pistol applications. There are technical/design reasons, and I should know, as I designed that propellant.
Please be safe,
Paul

Alliant Reloading said:

WE do not recommend Steel(R) powder for pistol applications. There are technical/design reasons, and I should know, as I designed that propellant.
Please be safe,
Paul

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If you designed it please go into some of the details with why. Some of us would love to know the technical reasons.

fxvr5 said:

If you want the right answer, ask Hodgdon.

Rumor is that 571 and HS-7 are the same powder.
https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...-close-powders-under-different-labels.797388/

Winchester had load data for 571 for almost all of their handgun cartridges in their 15th edition reloader's manual.

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I've used 571 for both Magnum pistol loads and duck and pheasant loads, as well as Blue Dot for both. 700-X and 800-X , and Unique, for .38 and light .357 & .44 loads, as well as Trap and light field loads, respectively. Red and Green Dot for .38 and .45 plinking loads, and Trap loads. I won't use a shotgun powder unless it has pistol applications. Call me frugal.

I don't load steel shot loads, so no worries there, Paul. Good info to know, though, thanks for posting it.

I think Alliant stopped giving dual purpose data out for powders. Data is for one application or the other. The reason I’m sure is to sell more powder.

entropy said:

I've used 571 for both Magnum pistol loads and duck and pheasant loads, as well as Blue Dot for both. 700-X and 800-X , and Unique, for .38 and light .357 & .44 loads, as well as Trap and light field loads, respectively. Red and Green Dot for .38 and .45 plinking loads, and Trap loads. I won't use a shotgun powder unless it has pistol applications. Call me frugal.

I don't load steel shot loads, so no worries there, Paul. Good info to know, though, thanks for posting it.

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Green Dot also works well in 3/4oz 20 gauge loads and 9mm.......

bluetopper said:

I think Alliant stopped giving dual purpose data out for powders. Data is for one application or the other. The reason I’m sure is to sell more powder.

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Just go on their website; you'll see plenty of instances where shotgun and handgun use the same powder

bluetopper said:

I think Alliant stopped giving dual purpose data out for powders. Data is for one application or the other. The reason I’m sure is to sell more powder.

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That logic is ass-backwards. Why limit a product to one market when it can be used for multiple markets.

Alliant Reloading said:

WE do not recommend Steel(R) powder for pistol applications. There are technical/design reasons, and I should know, as I designed that propellant.
Please be safe,
Paul

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If you have good data to say that it's not a great plan to use this I would like to have what information you have to spread the word because in these times when you can't find anything knowing that something unsafe is good information

fxvr5 said:

Rumor is that 571 and HS-7 are the same powder.

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No rumor, it's so.

HS-6 is W540 too.

mcb said:

If you designed it please go into some of the details with why. Some of us would love to know the technical reasons.

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Aside from Paul jumping in and remarking about Steel... I kind of wished he would comment on the OP's question.

When we first started shooting IPSC in Ontario Canada, someone gave me some 700X Shotgun powder.
Then I found it in 12 lb metal cans. In Buffalo NY State. So my 1911 Colt .45 loads were semi-wadcutter lead 200g Hensley and Gibbs cast loads, pushed by 5.2g of 700X made major calibre. This powder was manufactured in Canada, shipped by the trainload into the USA to be packaged. My progressive loader was a Star machine, born the same year I was, 1935.

I use Red Dot for reloading my shotgun shells, I also use for all of my handgun loads, it's as close as you can get to using one powder...It may not work the best in all calibers, but its good enough for range use.

Average Joe said:

I use Red Dot for reloading my shotgun shells, I also use for all of my handgun loads, it's as close as you can get to using one powder...It may not work the best in all calibers, but its good enough for range use.

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Same with me and WST. I used to load with it for my AA heavy trap reloads, and only found out years later it works well in the .45ACP. I don't load 12ga any longer... but I still use WST for .45! Go figure...

I have used 20/28 in place of Unique. These were all handgun loads and I got 3-5% more velocity using the same weight of powder with no high pressure signs. I know others have done the same. It is listed between BE86 and Unique on the burn rate charts.Use your own judgment when reloading not mine.

Winchester shows 231 for handgun use. From the 15th edition.

I use Unique in both handgun as well as 20 gauge and 28 gauge shot shells. The latter is the old Winchester AA hulls, when they are gone, I'll move on to 20/28 powder. I have one handgun load for 20/28 but it is not a published load from a reputable source.

I use 700-X in handgun but never have used it in shot shells.

I use W296 in handgun and .410 shot shells. I really like W296 in .410-2-1/2" skeet loads.

I do not shoot much 12 gauge shot shells and it seems the powders used in 12 gauge have more applications in handgun ammunition. I use one of the "Clays" powders, I forget which one off hand and would need to consult my reloading records, but which ever it is, I have not like using it in handgun cartridges.

In the 1990's. I competed alot in skeet and having a dedicated powders for my reloads was not really an issue. These days, I do not shoot as much skeet and it would be nice if the shot shell powders could be shared with some handgun ammunition. I'll manage.

Shotgun to pistol is EASY--you start with a safe start load and work up.
A shotgun load, however, is really a recipe that you follow--there is no start/max or load workup. All components must be right.