.380 Auto Recipe Feedback

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Ironwill1406

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Hi All,

I'm working on a recipe for .380 auto. Will be using a Glock 42 for testing in about a month or so when I get it.

Here's my starting point and I'd love any feedback or experience with this recipe:

xTreme Copper Plate RNFP - 100 Grain Bullets
Hogdon CFE Pistol Powder - 3.7 Grains
CCI #500 Small Pistol Primer
OAL 0.960

Hogdon has data for 100 grain HDY FMJ which calls for CFE Pistol 3.3 to 4.0 grains, and a OAL of 0.980.

I'm loading to the middle of that range with 3.7 grains of CFE Pistol but am cutting it a little shorter, down to 0.960 based on the flat nose of the bullet.

Thanks for any feedback!
 
I would wait until you get the pistol before loading anything. You will need to figure out your max OAL by plunk testing a dummy round into the chamber. Also, you'll want to then test a few dummy rounds in your magazine and cycle them through to verify function. Once you know the max OAL that your gun can handle, you can then decide what OAL you want to load for testing.

I cannot load some bullets to the book's OAL because they don't fit my gun's chamber. The bullet hits the rifling due to the shape of the ogive. When this happens, the bullet needs to be seated deeper for a shorter OAL and powder charges need to be reduced.
 
As a FYI I would not load to many at 3.7 until you are sure they will function.

If it was me I would load say 5 at 3.3, 5 at 3.5 and shoot them first then the ones at 3.7, with a new gun you may need to go closer to or at MAX (but work up to it)
You are correct with the flat nose the OAL will be a bit shorter than a true RN.

I have a little Kahr P380 and when it was new it would not function with anything less than MAX loads. (better after I but a couple 100 rounds thru it)

Here is some chrono data, mixed range brass, S+B SP, charges as thrown after setting measure
Kahr P380 2.5" barrel (so vels are low due to the short barrel)
[nothing like taking something like 380 which is marginal to begin with and lose vel because of a short barrel, but it is tiny...]
Note the CFE-P charge is at the MAX listed.
String: 2
Date: 8/14/2016
Time: 9:23:07 AM
Grains: 100
Hi Vel: 862
Low Vel: 843
Ave Vel: 853
Ext Spread: 19
Std Dev: 7
380 100 Xtreme 4.0 CFE-P (not in chrono record but hand notes say .965ish)
Velocity Power Factor Ft/Lbs
862 77.58 148.477
843 75.87 142.004
855 76.95 146.075
850 76.5 144.372
856 77.04 146.417


Factory Federal for comparision
String: 2
Date: 8/14/2016
Time: 8:44:02 AM
Grains: 95
Hi Vel: 845
Low Vel: 826
Ave Vel: 832
Ext Spread: 19
Std Dev: 7
Federal .380 95 FMJ
Velocity Power Factor Ft/Lbs
845 80.275 150.605
828 78.66 144.606
835 79.325 147.061
829 78.755 144.955
826 78.47 143.908

edit: Funny the ES and SD were the same for my reload and the factory Federal


So in this gun the MAX load with CFE-P was giving me about 20fps more than factory Federal


CFE-P works well for MAX lods in .380, for anything else I really like AA#2, it meters great in .380 size charges
 
Last edited:
Ironwill1406 said:
Hi All,

I'm working on a recipe for .380 auto. Will be using a Glock 42 for testing in about a month or so when I get it.

Here's my starting point and I'd love any feedback or experience with this recipe:

xTreme Copper Plate RNFP - 100 Grain Bullets
Hogdon CFE Pistol Powder - 3.7 Grains
CCI #500 Small Pistol Primer
OAL 0.960

Hogdon has data for 100 grain HDY FMJ which calls for CFE Pistol 3.3 to 4.0 grains, and a OAL of 0.980.

I'm loading to the middle of that range with 3.7 grains of CFE Pistol but am cutting it a little shorter, down to 0.960 based on the flat nose of the bullet.

Thanks for any feedback!
Click to expand...
Where does that powder fall on the burn rate charts ? I don't see it on mine.
 
I have been loading that bullet for a long time for a EZ and a Witness Pavona and loading almost the same. Only I have not used that powder. I have used hp-38, AA#2, AA#5 and Ramshot Silhouette. The AA#2 and Ramshot have performed the best out of that lot of powders. They were the most consistent and accurate with that 100gr FP bullet.

I like that bullet so much that I have about 400 loaded and another unopened box of 500.
 
I have loaded Berry's HBRN 100 gr. bullets using 4.0 gr. CFE-P. Recoil is similar to Winchester white box out of a LCP. But usually I use HP-38 for a softer recoil.
 
I understand we are seeing many "basic" questions on forums because of the many new reloaders produced by the current situation. But, does any new reloaders use "basic" reloading methods, like finding a load? Reloading manuals are the "bibles" for all reloaders. Much, much more data/info than just powder charges. K.I.S.S.; as Weekendreloader mentioned, get your gun first, especially for a new reloader as you need to fit your handloads to the gun (plunk test, bullet diameter, OAL to fit magazine and chamber). Put the horse in front of the cart. Find a load (bullet, powder, primer, etc.) in your manual before you gather components to avoid having to make a load out of what you have on hand. I understand components are hard to find but finding component need first will keep from having mis-matched unusable components or scrounging for load data...

How did you choose the load you posted? Why did you choose that weight plated bullet? What are your reloading needs (SD, hunting, range fodder)?

I share my Rule #1 with anyone that will listen (and especially new reloaders); I pay little (no) attention to any load data I see on any forum, or pet loads web site or what I hear from any range rat, gun counter clerk, good intended friend or gun shop guru. I get 98% of my starting load data from published reloading manuals (I suggest published manuals because there is much, much more info/data than just powder charges and I can compare powders that are listed together under a specific bullet). I do use powder manufacturer's web sites for some data when I'm looking for data on a specific powder I already have. This has worked quite well for about 4 decades, and only one squib (1971) and no kabooms or wasted components...

K.I.S.S., go slow, double check everything and most important, have fun...
 
If this Glock 42 is a blow-back action, then CFE Pistol may be too "slow" to run efficiently. Typically blow-back actions like powder burn rates starting at Winchester 231 and those faster. Consult several Burn Rate Charts if this is new information to you.

While CFE Pistol will allow you to build workable cartridges, you'll may have a lot of black, sooty, unburned powder left in the receiver as proof of what I'm saying.
 
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mdi said:
I understand we are seeing many "basic" questions on forums because of the many new reloaders produced by the current situation. But, does any new reloaders use "basic" reloading methods, like finding a load? Reloading manuals are the "bibles" for all reloaders. Much, much more data/info than just powder charges. K.I.S.S.; as Weekendreloader mentioned, get your gun first, especially for a new reloader as you need to fit your handloads to the gun (plunk test, bullet diameter, OAL to fit magazine and chamber). Put the horse in front of the cart. Find a load (bullet, powder, primer, etc.) in your manual before you gather components to avoid having to make a load out of what you have on hand. I understand components are hard to find but finding component need first will keep from having mis-matched unusable components or scrounging for load data...

How did you choose the load you posted? Why did you choose that weight plated bullet? What are your reloading needs (SD, hunting, range fodder)?

I share my Rule #1 with anyone that will listen (and especially new reloaders); I pay little (no) attention to any load data I see on any forum, or pet loads web site or what I hear from any range rat, gun counter clerk, good intended friend or gun shop guru. I get 98% of my starting load data from published reloading manuals (I suggest published manuals because there is much, much more info/data than just powder charges and I can compare powders that are listed together under a specific bullet). I do use powder manufacturer's web sites for some data when I'm looking for data on a specific powder I already have. This has worked quite well for about 4 decades, and only one squib (1971) and no kabooms or wasted components...

K.I.S.S., go slow, double check everything and most important, have fun...
Click to expand...

Thanks for taking the time to post what you did. I would like to response to some of the points you raised.

I'm not a "brand new" reloader per se. I have been reloading for a year now and shoot weekly. I use this site to triangulate load data. I also use Hogdon's website. Speer's website. My Lee Manual. And other "trusted" publications. You may know that sometimes you cannot find a "trusted" source that exactly matches a specific set of components. xTreme copper plated aren't necessarily in all of the available manuals nor on Hogdon or Speer's websites profusely.

As for "why" I bought the components I did...well, simple...I reload now. I load 9mm, 38 specials / +p, 357 magnum, 223, and .380 is a new caliber in my collection. So, I have primers, have CFE pistol powder, I am a range rat for brass and I like xtreme bullets for my other rounds so I stick with what works. xtreme only had 100grain and it appears to be a fairly common weight for .380. And there is evidence in the manuals for these components, just not for the copper plated bullet option.

I look at manuals and website data and then I ask questions here. Mentorship is, sadly, not very present in today's climate. So I seek out the advice of those willing to share, then I apply critical thinking and other data tools at my disposal. THEN I check my loads with a chronograph an adjust based on real data, triangulated data, and critical thought application.

I do not believe anyone should blindly trust anything found on "social media" and would include this forum in that classification. However, I do believe it to be somewhat limiting if you cut yourself off from any information source. Rather, I feel we should apply appropriate filters and critical thought to as many data sources as possible. Which is why I posted what I posted and will continue to ask questions from a community that I simply have no other way to access beyond this forum. Strict adherence to your "rule #1" would dictate that I may never find a recipe for the specific components I have. Now, I have several comments that I will line up adjacent to "trusted" data sources and combined with brain power application, I've got three test batches ready for the chrono. And I will post my results as I have before in this thread so others can see, gather, and apply information from the community.

Respectfully,

IronWill
 
rfwobbly said:
If this Glock 42 is a blow-back action, then CFE Pistol may be too "slow" to run efficiently. Typically blow-back actions like powder burn rates starting at Winchester 231 and those faster. Consult several Burn Rate Charts if this is new information to you.

While CFE Pistol will allow you to build workable cartridges, you'll may have a lot of black, sooty, unburned powder left in the receiver as proof of what I'm saying.
Click to expand...

Hi, many of my CFE pistol reload cases are very dirty upon ejection. Do you find CFE pistol to just be dirty?
 
Hi, many of my CFE pistol reload cases are very dirty upon ejection. Do you find CFE pistol to just be dirty?
Click to expand...

CFE-P tends to be "dirty" on the lower side of it's charge range.
I have found it cleans up towards the higher side of it's charge range. YMMV
 
For a bunch of us here, one year is still in diapers. But my thinking stands. One aspect about new reloaders today is the "instant info" available today and too many can't/won't research for themselves, just pose a question on a forum. Some newer reloaders get their data from questionable sources (forums, youtube, poor texts, etc., I do have a Lee Manual but while it has an interesting and entertaining front half, the load data is sketchy and I have 4 manuals I check before I look at the Lee, no I'm not a Lee Hater). This is where the ability to research come in to play. I can't remember many questions I see on forums that cannot be answered by reloading manuals or texts. And for the instant info folks google is their friend.

I mostly respond to newer reloaders to share 40 years reloading experience from a life long machinist/mechanic that had 1 squib and no Kabooms. When I was training apprentices I found the way for lasting information/teaching, is basic start slow with proven, time tested methods and data. Same applies to reloading K.I.S.S.!
 
Hodgdon data for .380
DIA OAL Start SVel Max MVel
90 GR. HDY JHP Hodgdon Universal .355" .955" 3.2 815 10,700 CUP 3.6 955 15,700 CUP
90 GR. HDY JHP Winchester 231 .355" .955" 3.2 917 13,900 CUP 3.5 957 15,400 CUP
90 GR. HDY JHP Hodgdon HP-38 .355" .955" 3.2 917 13,900 CUP 3.5 957 15,400 CUP
90 GR. HDY JHP Hodgdon Titegroup .355" .955" 2.7 826 10,800 CUP 3.2 970 15,600 CUP
90 GR. HDY JHP Winchester 572 .355" .955" 3.9 919 15,600 PSI 4.4 1,053 19,900 PSI
90 GR. HDY JHP Winchester 244 .355" .955" 3.2 930 15,600 PSI 3.7 1,061 19,800 PSI
95 GR. SPR FMJ Hodgdon CFE Pistol .355" .970" 3.7 822 12,000 PSI 4.2 986 19,500 PSI
95 GR. SPR FMJ Winchester AutoComp .355" .970" 3.9 816 10,600 CUP 4.3 937 14,100 CUP
95 GR. SPR FMJ Hodgdon Universal .355" .970" 3.1 814 12,500 CUP 3.5 901 15,500 CUP
95 GR. SPR FMJ Winchester 231 .355" .970" 2.9 802 13,100 CUP 3.2 884 15,400 CUP
95 GR. SPR FMJ Hodgdon HP-38 .355" .970" 2.9 802 13,100 CUP 3.2 884 15,400 CUP
95 GR. SPR FMJ Hodgdon Titegroup .355" .970" 2.7 796 10,600 CUP 3.2 953 15,600 CUP
95 GR. SPR FMJ Winchester 572 .355" .970" 3.5 785 13,700 PSI 4.2 982 19,900 PSI
95 GR. SPR FMJ Winchester 244 .355" .970" 3.2 848 14,800 PSI 3.7 995 19,600 PSI
100 GR. HDY FMJ Hodgdon CFE Pistol .355" .980" 3.3 794 12,400 PSI 4 955 19,800 PSI
100 GR. HDY FMJ Winchester AutoComp.355" .980" 3.8 822 11,000 CUP 4.2 934 14,400 CUP
100 GR. HDY FMJ Hodgdon Universal .355" .980" 3 721 11,400 CUP 3.4 889 16,100 CUP
100 GR. HDY FMJ Winchester 231 .355" .980" 2.9 819 13,800 CUP 3.1 843 15,400 CUP
100 GR. HDY FMJ Hodgdon HP-38 .355" .980" 2.9 819 13,800 CUP 3.1 843 15,400 CUP
100 GR. HDY FMJ Hodgdon Titegroup .355" .980" 2.6 793 11,400 CUP 3 912 14,700 CUP
100 GR. HDY FMJ Winchester 572 .355" .980" 3.4 816 15,300 PSI 4.1 965 19,800 PSI
100 GR. HDY FMJ Winchester 244 .355" .980" 3 851 16,600 PSI 3.5 994 19,500 PSI

So with CFE-P and a 100gr range is 3.3 to 4gr
 
kcofohio said:
That has been my experience also.
Click to expand...
^^^Kinda my experience with all powders.

Seems the OP has a pretty good grasp on things and took into consideration nose profile when considering OAL. Like has been said, I too would hesitate making up more than a few until I had the gun in hand and could do a "plunk" test. I would do this even if I was loading something with published data and OAL, as all guns are different. The powder charge should be close, but I think I would be a tad more conservative with my start charge and maybe go with 3.5 instead of 3.7.
 
buck460XVR said:
^^^Kinda my experience with all powders.

Seems the OP has a pretty good grasp on things and took into consideration nose profile when considering OAL. Like has been said, I too would hesitate making up more than a few until I had the gun in hand and could do a "plunk" test. I would do this even if I was loading something with published data and OAL, as all guns are different. The powder charge should be close, but I think I would be a tad more conservative with my start charge and maybe go with 3.5 instead of 3.7.
Click to expand...

I've got 20 rounds of 3.3, 3.5 and 3.7 to test in the chrono. :) Results forthcoming.
 
mdi said:
For a bunch of us here, one year is still in diapers. But my thinking stands. One aspect about new reloaders today is the "instant info" available today and too many can't/won't research for themselves, just pose a question on a forum. Some newer reloaders get their data from questionable sources (forums, youtube, poor texts, etc., I do have a Lee Manual but while it has an interesting and entertaining front half, the load data is sketchy and I have 4 manuals I check before I look at the Lee, no I'm not a Lee Hater). This is where the ability to research come in to play. I can't remember many questions I see on forums that cannot be answered by reloading manuals or texts. And for the instant info folks google is their friend.

I mostly respond to newer reloaders to share 40 years reloading experience from a life long machinist/mechanic that had 1 squib and no Kabooms. When I was training apprentices I found the way for lasting information/teaching, is basic start slow with proven, time tested methods and data. Same applies to reloading K.I.S.S.!
Click to expand...

Congrats. Your response simultaneously insults because of my length of time spent on the hobby AND tosses a round downrange at my age with your "instant info" comment. Also, how convenient...the one manual I cite you find to have sketchy data. I have better things to do.
 
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Ironwill1406;

My post was not meant to insult you, but if your ego is so fragile as to take offence, so be it. The "diapers" comment jokingly meant that you have been reloading a very, very short time and could benefit from some of the more experienced reloaders here (not me alone but others with more experience than I have). The instant info comment applies to a huge number of new reloaders that don't/won't bother with researching, just type out a question and wait 30 seconds for an answer. If you put yourself in that category, again, so be it, it wasn't my attempt at an insult (I could easily find better methods to insult a thin skinned new forum member).

I have approx. 9 reloading manuals including the Lee (not bragging nor attempting to insult anyone with fewer), and my experience finding load data for 12 calibers (not bragging nor attempting to insult anyone that reloads fewer) the Lee manual is often lacking; sometimes only one powder manufacturer for a specific bullet/powder, sometimes only two or three loads of one or two different powders, some common combinations of components not listed. I have my 3 "go to first" manuals (not bragging or attempting to insult someone that has fewer) and sometimes visit the Hodgdon web site, having very, very rarely failed to find a load. I mentioned this "hint" to a new reloader (you) meaning to say your choice of a reloading manual was a poor one. Not repeating what any expert said, just my findings. (Lee manuals are a compilation of test results done by other powder/bullet manufacturers including Lyman's laboratory testing, and not all are included and not all are up to date/current. Not all bad, but there are much better manual choices). Again, if anything I say offends you, oh well, not my fault...

If my posts offend you or you feel insulted there is an "ignore" function and I would happily suggest my screen name/posts be ignored by you, cause I doubt if my day would be the least affected by hearing your accusations/complaints about my posts. (hover your mouse icon over your screen name, a drop down menu will appear, go 3/4 of the way down the right hand column to "people you ignore" and click there. On the "people to ignore line" like type "mdi", hit "save changes" and you won't be insulted by my posts ever again!).
 
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MDI;

That's about the response I was expecting based on our interactions thus far. Also assumed you would need to have the last word. Feel free to follow your own directions and "ignore" me...it's mostly a free country. I do not feel the need to use technology to shield me from your scary posts. Interestingly enough, more than a few members on this forum reached out to me privately relative to you and your posts on this forum. Their comments were intriguing. Based on said comments it comes as no surprise that you have memorized the "ignore" feature settings.

Once again, I have better things to do.

Will.
 
rfwobbly said:
If this Glock 42 is a blow-back action, then CFE Pistol may be too "slow" to run efficiently. Typically blow-back actions like powder burn rates starting at Winchester 231 and those faster. Consult several Burn Rate Charts if this is new information to you.

While CFE Pistol will allow you to build workable cartridges, you'll may have a lot of black, sooty, unburned powder left in the receiver as proof of what I'm saying.
Click to expand...
---
The Glock 42 is a tilting-block, locked-breech action.
 
wlkjr said:
In my experience, the G42 works better with full power loads. And it functions really well with the Xtreme 100g FP.
Click to expand...

My Glock 42 has similar limitations. It cycles fine with factory ammunition but not so much with my reloads.

My reloads cycle 100% reliably in a Beretta 84, Colt Mustang, Kimber Micro, Browning 1911-380, Sig P238, Walther PPK and a KelTec P3-AT, a mix of blow back actions and locked breech actions. They do not cycle the Glock 42. My reloads are probably a bit softer than factory ammunition and I'm still working off inventory of reloads that I made before buying the Glock.

Granted, a data point of one but keep it in mind and work up your loads carefully.
 
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