crooked bullets

Have you ever thought about a concentricity tool? After all the other checks listed on this thread, I ran my loads through Hornady's concentricity tool. Industry standards for bullet to case alignment on center is about .002 I found about a 1/2 dozen in 50 handloads to be way off center. I now can fix that and also reduce the alignment error on all my ammo to less than .001 That's .001 less than factory ammo. You see it is all about tolerances which is what Hornady will tell you. How close to perfect do you want to get? Hornady will tell you their equipment is as good if not better than anything on the market. But there variances in bullets, cases and the way you use your equipment. It all adds up as you are finding out now. You can correct these issues is you want to, with the right equipment. Maybe you will want a comprarator too.
You may have just entered a deep dark hole from which there is no escape. "Come to the dark side Luke. Use the Force".

I use teflon tape to minimize the slop in my dies, when the tape is cut to the proper length you can get things lined up pretty dang close.
When you have a course thread with a sloppy male to female thread interface along with a lock ring or nut, there will be alignment issues.

Thomasss said:

Have you ever thought about a concentricity tool? After all the other checks listed on this thread, I ran my loads through Hornady's concentricity tool. Industry standards for bullet to case alignment on center is about .002 I found about a 1/2 dozen in 50 handloads to be way off center. I now can fix that and also reduce the alignment error on all my ammo to less than .001 That's .001 less than factory ammo. You see it is all about tolerances which is what Hornady will tell you. How close to perfect do you want to get? Hornady will tell you their equipment is as good if not better than anything on the market. But there variances in bullets, cases and the way you use your equipment. It all adds up as you are finding out now. You can correct these issues is you want to, with the right equipment. Maybe you will want a comprarator too.
You may have just entered a deep dark hole from which there is no escape. "Come to the dark side Luke. Use the Force".

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To the dark side, Luke, and we'll fall down the rabbit hole with Alice and use the The Force!!! BwaaaaHaaaaHaaaa

Been through this reloading LC 7.62 brass. For me the fix was fairly simple. It was the expander that when pulled out of the necks, stretched them badly. (Thick brass had something to do with it, I think) I ended up removing the expanders inside and using an RCBS version of Lyman's "M" expander die. Such comes with RCBS's new tube rifle bullet feeders....("M" expander and feed die), but the Lyman "M" expander does the same thing. What can I say, it worked. Eccentricity improved. I was already using a good seater so that wasn't a factor.

The experts say run out is not induced by the seater, I tend to agree.
Hornday seater I have owned was as good as any others making straight ammo.
As a test' color ogive with a Sharpie shoot side by side without knowledge of which is which then compare the target.
I've not seen any indication of run out affecting accuracy to date.
J

If the run-out is in the bullet theres nothing you can do about it except buy better bullets. Sierra is usually very good. Berger is just as good or better. If its not the bullet it could be any of the things Walkalong said.

A few things that I have noticed about concentricity is that if you roll the cartridge across a flat surface and can see wiggle with the naked eye you are looking at .004-.005 and it can show up in your groups. This may go un-noticed unless you have an accurate rifle. Its a good chance thats its caused by the expander. Polishing the expander ball helps some, a carbide expander (expensive) helps even more and lubing the inside of the case neck helps. I also leave the expander rod a little loose in the die so it can self center. Some guys just leave the expander rod out and use an expander die like Sinclair sells for use with their neck turning tools.

A buddy has one of those flat bars thingies with holes in it that you can use to straighten out the crooked cartridge. He swears by it but most others don't think much of the idea. Personally I try to find the cause and eliminate it.

Somebody mentioned rabbit hole. Thats pretty good description! The sky is the limit on what you can spend chasing tiny groups.

You could be bending the case neck out of alignment with the base of the case when you pull the expander ball through the case neck. What happens is when the case starts out of the sizing die the bottom of the case slips sideways in the shell holder so when the expander goes through the neck it pulls the neck out of alignment with the base of the case. To solve this problem when the case starts out of the die take your finger and hold the bottom of the case against the back of the shell holder before the expander goes through the neck. Watch the base of the case when it comes out of the sizing die and you will understand what I'm saying. The faster you pull the case out of the sizing die the more the base of the case moves in the shell holder.

Those silly experts get annoying....i get it..
I don't use Hornday bullet's but I can see where a stem had doesn't contact the plastic tip would be useful.
Interesting observation of top shelf rifles, if I ever get one ill test your theory.
J

South Prairie Jim said:

Interesting observation of top shelf rifles, if I ever get one ill test your theory.J

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I hadn't heard the term "top shelf rifles" but I got a chuckle our of your reply. It reminds me of the saying "sharpest knife in the drawer." Maybe the guys who own "top shelf rifles" are the "sharpest knives in the drawer." I doubt if I own any "top shelf rifles" but I could have an "expert" take a look at what I have!