But a flat nose bullet and a round nose bullet of the same weight are different. The weight that was in the nose is now, where? Is it inside the case? Have we decreased case capacity? Does it matter? A little under lead RN was where I was originally thinking of where to start.
.38 special, win 231, 158 gr RNFP
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rfwobbly
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Welcome Aboard !
Using the Hodgodn Load Center I see loads listed for 158gr LRN that say... 3.1 Starting to 3.5gr (Max).
You need to understand that Hodgdon HP-38 is the same as Winchester 231, and THEN you need to look under both powders. Please make a note of that in your personal reloading notebook.
In the future you'll save money and get even better accuracy with 148gr DEWC when loaded in 38Spcl.
Hope this helps.
Using the Hodgodn Load Center I see loads listed for 158gr LRN that say... 3.1 Starting to 3.5gr (Max).
You need to understand that Hodgdon HP-38 is the same as Winchester 231, and THEN you need to look under both powders. Please make a note of that in your personal reloading notebook.
In the future you'll save money and get even better accuracy with 148gr DEWC when loaded in 38Spcl.
Hope this helps.
EMC45
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I just loaded up 50 158gr Lee RNFPs last night over 3.8gr HP-38 in mixed cases. Having loaded Bullseye for as long as I can remember (3gr on the dot) for that bullet, I'm really curious to find out how it does wth HP-38.
Not to hijack, but I also loaded 50 .380 over 3gr. HP-38 with the RN Lee 102gr. bullet. That seems to be the sweet spot for that bullet and load combo.
Not to hijack, but I also loaded 50 .380 over 3gr. HP-38 with the RN Lee 102gr. bullet. That seems to be the sweet spot for that bullet and load combo.
.38 Special
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With very few exceptions, cast bullets of the same weight can be treated interchangeably when handloading.
I have used 3.5 grains of 231 behind 158 grain bullets for decades and like it a great deal. I personally have never found 231 to be dirty, and in fact consider it to be pretty clean burning.
Zendude
Member
You’ve got the right idea. In order to have the same bullet seating depth and therefore the same space in the case for the powder, flat nose and round nose will have a different overall cartridge length after the cartridge is assembled because the length of the two bullets are different. In 38 special, small variations in the case volume don’t make much difference. But for other cartridges with a smaller case, like 9mm, it can make a big difference.
I have been shooting .38 special full wadcutters for a while (I love the round holes!) and just about the entire bullet goes inside the case so I was worried about the profile when quite a large percentage of the bullet is no longer inside the case. I wish I could get wadcutters. The components I have on hand are the only ones I can find.
Thanks. I now think that I should have rephrased my initial question to:
Do small variations in .38 special case volume from seating depth or bullet design make much difference?
But I got some great info. Thanks to all.
Mr_Flintstone
Member
You can’t just look at the cartridge overall length, especially with .38 special and .357 magnum. There are so many variations on bullet sizes and shape that even two LRN bullets might have a different overall length.
Even so, nearly all .38/.357 lead and cast bullets come with a crimp groove. If your frugal nature holds true, you won’t be loading maximum loads, so if you just seat to that crimp groove with a mild to moderate charge, it won’t matter if you are using data for a LRN, LRNFP, SWC, TC, or some other similar bullet. The difference in seating depth will be, I won’t say negligible, but something that will probably never cause pressure issues unless you are loading a maximum charge without a work up.
If your desire for understanding takes precedence, then what you need to look at is the seating depth of the bullet in question. A SWC, LRN, RNFP, or any other profile bullet of the same weight seated to the same depth will create the same pressure. Unfortunately, a lot of load data doesn’t list the manufacturer of the cast bullet in question or the seating depth. Manuals like Lyman list the specific bullet mold which you can look up to get the seating depth, but they aren’t the best with listing pressure.
Long answer short, stick with a similar type bullet to what is listed, and start low. Work your way up, but consider that you probably won’t ever see pressure signs in a 38 special until you are well into 357 magnum pressures.
I would be interested in hearing your report.
Sistema1927
Member
You are overthinking this. It might matter if you were pushing the envelope, but 3.5 Win231/HP38 is a target load, and one that has stood the test of time. 148, 158, WC, SWC, SWCHP, RNFP, RN, it doesn't matter.
Start here; https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1023229753. Go to the 38 Special section. Go to 158 gr. LSWC. Go down to the "231" listing. Use starting loads. LRNFP, LSWC, LTC, etc., can all use the same data, same lead bullet weight, same powder charge. For more info on shooting lead bullets go here; http://www.lasc.us/Fryxell_Book_Contents.htm and for real life day to day info hang out here; https://castboolits.gunloads.com/
Hooda Thunkit
Member
Ooohhh. That's a fairly early Taurus. It's got flutes in the cylinder, well, flutes. The lines in the flutes.
Fluted flutes?
Either way, it's a relatively early Taurus, I suspect mid to late 1970s.
I like it !
Dudedog
Contributing Member
Lyman shows this for a 160gr LRN @ 1.55
W231 Start 3.5 MAX 4.9 (+P MAX 5.2)
W231 Start 3.5 MAX 4.9 (+P MAX 5.2)
EMC45
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I shot the .38s out of a 4in HB Model 10-8. I have to say I think Bullseye gets the nod for accuracy. It was kind of sooty too.
Beautiful
Mr_Flintstone
Member
I think Bullseye and 38 special were made for each other.
Absolutely, Bullseye is my favorite in 38 spl. with lead bullets.
reloaded_in_pa
Member
I may have missed it but what bullet are you using ? I use 3.7g of 231 with a Lee 358-158-SWC. They shoot great out of my Model 15.
I have one primed .38 special case (SPPs on the way), so here is my 1st load. OAL is 1.385 in. Case gauge and cylinder drops all look good. How is the crimp? Thanks to all for the help. (BTW, I am starting with 3.3 gr Win 231)
I will be sending it this morning.
Jim Watson
Member
Looks like you have the crimp ON the front band, not into the groove.
That is a very light load, I use 3.2 gr W231 for a 148 gr wadcutter seated flush.
That is a very light load, I use 3.2 gr W231 for a 148 gr wadcutter seated flush.
Mr_Flintstone
Member
You shouldn't have any trouble with that charge even if it is seated too deep. I have some bullets like those. If your brass is trimmed at 1.145" then the overall length should be about 1.435". Seating them in the crimp groove should put you dead on. When you get your crimp in the groove, you should see a roll on the very tip of the brass into the groove.
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