38-Special 158 grain Hornady XTP and Everglades SWC question.

[Jim K III]

I'm trying to find reloading data using Win 231 powder to load some Everglades SWC 158 grain bullets. The Everglades SWC are plated not cast. Everglades sent 500 of these to me by mistake, so I might as well use them.

The Hodgdon Data web site doesn't give Win 231 data for plated SWC, but does for Hornady XTP and cast LSWC with different grain weights.

Another site, reloadammo, gives Win 231 data for plated SWC, but that data is different than the Hodgdon data.

The common denominator for all the data is the bullet weight of 158 grain and win 231 powder.

Three questions:

1. My assumption that regardless of the bullet type, if the bullet weight is the same (i.e. 158 gr) and the powder is the same (Win 231), then the amount of powder is the same. For instance 158 gr FMJ takes the same amount of Win 231 as a 158 gr hollow point, and the same for a 158 gr SWC, is wrong.

2. If my assumption is wrong, will someone explain why?

3. Is the reloadammo data for Win 231 and 158 gr plated SWC, 4.0 to max 4.5, good enough to go?

 

[mcb]

I have always read, and in my own experience found it fairly true, that you treated plated lead like lead as far as load data goes. The plating is usually so thin as to not have a dramatic effect on pressures compared to lead. Unlike a true jacket that is thick enough to cause an increase in pressure do to the extra force required to drive the bullet into the riflings.

A for changing bullet shape/type the different types may have different amount of bullet in contact with the barrel as this effects friction and the force required to drive them into the rifles and this will likely effect pressure. Also depending on shape of the bullet will result in a bullet that may be longer or shorter than another type and when loaded to the same length will result in different initial volume for the powder in the case and this can have a pretty big effect on peak pressure especially as you work up toward maximum charges.

It's always best to use data that exactly matches you components but if that is not available use the data that is as close to your components as possible and start low and work up to the velocity you want.

 

[eddiememphis]

It takes less powder to push a lead or coated lead than a plated or jacketed bullet. Less resistance.

 

[Walkalong]

questions:

1. My assumption that regardless of the bullet type, if the bullet weight is the same (i.e. 158 gr) and the powder is the same (Win 231), then the amount of powder is the same.

That is incorrect. Bullet type matters. Think friction to start with.

That said, you can safely use starting.38 Spl jacketed data with those plated, and are probably OK up to max, but I’d stop at midrange.

Plated bullets can take more than lead data, I mean, they’re not lubed lead, they’re copper plated. The caliber matters more here, and stopping at midrange jacketed data is a good rule of thumb, even though they can often take more than that.

 

[Walkalong]

@mcb has some, as usual, good points, even though we disagree on using no more than lead data for plated.

 

[mcb]

@mcb has some, as usual, good points, even though we disagree on using no more than lead data for plated.

I just find lead data a good safe place to start and my velocities more often match closer to lead data than jacketed data. You can often push plated faster than lead without problems due to the plating.

 

[Jim K III]

I appreciate the responses. I'll use a load of 4.0 gr and see how they group. Since I'm not into getting max fps or sub-inch groups, if I can get a decent pattern in the paper, I'm happy.

 

[Mr_Flintstone]

One thing to keep in mind is that different bullets seat to different depths. If you are close to max pressure that difference in seating depth can make a pretty significant difference in pressure. Looking at your data though, I don’t think you’re likely to run into any issues with what you’ve got. Hornady lists a LSWC at 1.455“ COL and 3.2-4.4 gr Win 231. Even with fluctuations due to seating depth, I think you’ll still be in the safe range if you start at 4.0 grains. I believe I’d stay at or below 4.3 gr though just to be safe and keep the copper jacket from flying off.

 

[Walkalong]

Plated can take more than many folks think. Don't damage the plating crimping, which mostly means a taper crimp.

Powerbond "HP" at an Avg 1257 FPS. Target at seven yards, six shots over the chrono set at five yards.


I have run the X-Treme plated 158 Gr SWC at just under 1200 FPS in .357 Mag as well, it gets a little
less velocity than the Hornady XTP loaded with the same charge of 2400. Pressures must be similar.

 

[lordpaxman]

1. My assumption that regardless of the bullet type, if the bullet weight is the same (i.e. 158 gr) and the powder is the same (Win 231), then the amount of powder is the same. For instance 158 gr FMJ takes the same amount of Win 231 as a 158 gr hollow point, and the same for a 158 gr SWC, is wrong.

I just wanted to reiterate what @Walkalong said. The bullet technology matters, it’s not just the grain weight. You posted Hodgdon online data which clearly shows that. Be safe!
When plated first came out most companies were saying use lead data to start, but several changed to use jacketed data to the midrange.

 

[buck460XVR]

The response given to me most of the time from manufacturers of plated bullets, is that they fall somewhere between lead and jacketed. Some say to use lead data and some say to stick with jacketed, but to stop at the midway point in the data. IMHO, most cheap plated can't be pushed too fast or crimped too hard, so keeping powder charges down works the best. Most cheap plated bullets show accuracy of cheap bullets so long range shooting is not their forte. Exception is quality "bonded" bullets like Speer's "Gold Dots" and "Deep Curls". They too are a plated bullet, but with plating closer to the thickness of a true jacketed bullet and can be treated as such.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

When I do load a plated bullet (rarely) I use data for cast bullets. It works well for me in my guns.