9mm Reloaded Accuracy Advise Please

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Pahonix said:
Thoughts? Advice? Is this okay, bad, good?
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1)Reloads were successful - Great!
2)You’re in the “A” zone at 25 yards - Great!
Is it precise enough for your intended use? You’ll need to judge that for yourself.
Do you have any other data for this gun at this distance with any other load? If so you can compare to your reloads but the combination of the gun, rest, and shooter all conspire to shoot a certain group size.
I don’t shoot bullseye, but I do shoot run and gun so this group size at 25 yards is fine. You can always start varying one thing at a time and see if it improves. You can shorten/lengthen COL, change charge weight, etc. A chrono is useful for another data point in the quest for precision. Good luck.
 
I agree with lordpaxman. Your 1st attempts at reloading were successful, Pahonix. BTW, I like your handle. Can accuracy be improved? Most likely, yes. Many of us are on a neverending chase for that elusive best accuracy, and that's one of the aspects that make reloading enjoyable for me. In the end, based upon your shooting objectives, you must decide if the accuracy you're getting is good enough.

lordpaxman said:
1)Reloads were successful - Great!
2)You’re in the “A” zone at 25 yards - Great!
Is it precise enough for your intended use? You’ll need to judge that for yourself.
Do you have any other data for this gun at this distance with any other load? If so you can compare to your reloads but the combination of the gun, rest, and shooter all conspire to shoot a certain group size.
I don’t shoot bullseye, but I do shoot run and gun so this group size at 25 yards is fine. You can always start varying one thing at a time and see if it improves. You can shorten/lengthen COL, change charge weight, etc. A chrono is useful for another data point in the quest for precision. Good luck.
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fxvr5 said:
Why are 5-shot groups better?
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Some kind of standard should be used. I happen to like the 5 shots x 5 groups. Plus the backer target can record a composite 25 shot group.

Its best to test the same loading on different days. Don't fire all shots on the same day. More so with iron sights.
Personal choice.
 
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243winxb said:
Most are in a 4 1/2" group. Not bad for a striker fired pistol. IMO. A better test may be shooting 5 shot groups?
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If I discount all the bad shots in my groups then me and my guns are a lot better too. :p

I'm going to try two shot groups, but if that doesn't work out, then I'll try one shot groups. Then I'll be able to report sub MOA with every revolver I've got! :D
 
"Thoughts? Advice? Is this okay, bad, good?

This is about 25 rounds and again, at 25 yards."

View attachment 994197[/QUOTE]

To the OP:

Before attempting to answer your questions a few things must be determined.

What is your experience level?

Are you seeking "combat" accuracy or "precision pistol " accuracy?

What is your accuracy objective?

Personally I don't know anyone using HTG or plated bullets for Precision Pistol!

If you are not a "classified" shooter your group at 25 yards unsupported is acceptable for "combat" style shooting games.

Keep working on your reloading techniques for consistency and practice, practice, practice. It will all come together for you!

Smiles,
 
You've got some fliers in there - one at the top right and 3 lower - that have to be gun control. The central group looks ok for 75 feet but could also show a finger-on-trigger issue - grouping to the right a bit - or you just need to adjust your red dot a hair. I agree that you should try a shorter range.

I don't think anything is wrong with the powder charge - should shoot pretty good. If you're throwing from a powder meter, it may pay to pull a few bullets and weigh the powder charge although TiteGroup meters well usually. But, it is only .5 grains from min to max.
 
NMexJim said:
You've got some fliers in there - one at the top right and 3 lower - that have to be gun control.
Click to expand...

You've excluded the possibility that it correctly reflects the accuracy of that ammo in that gun. Maybe that's exactly how that ammo shoots in that gun.
 
To the OP: You have just started at this game. Right now it's difficult to find different components to try but that seems to be the secret to good accuracy. Keep trying different combos. Sometimes it can be frustrating. I have tried some combinations that gave absolutely horrible groups in a gun that gave great accuracy with other loads.
 
fxvr5 said:
I hate to break the news to you, but even after you looked it up, you still misspelled Vihtavuori.

I don't see 3N37 used in Nosler's 9mm data where it shows it being the most accurate. Please point to examples where 3N37 is the most accurate powder in Nosler's data. Surely you didn't just make this up, did you? (When Nosler does indicate which load or powder is the most accurate, we have no way to know HOW MUCH more accurate. Technically 0.01" difference would be more accurate, but is meaningless in the real world.)

Which Hornady data shows 3N37 as most accurate? Where is this appendix in the Hornady manual that shows 3N37 being the most accurate? I don't see it in my 10th edition. Please show me where to find it. Thanks.

The article you posted shows 3N37 producing very small groups in a Glock. But that's one Glock. And it's not even a Glock barrel.

You'll be proud of me. I did some legwork on my own. If you followup and look at that author's second article on 9 Major accuracy, you'll see 3N37 produced some of the largest groups in a different gun. So your claim of it being the best in most handguns is not supported.
https://www.ssusa.org/articles/2020/4/28/accuracy-of-9-major-handloads/

Is there other data you can direct us to that shows 3N37 producing the best accuracy?

I get the feeling you made up that part about 3N37 being the most accurate in . . . "almost any carry size pistol that uses a locking action." You only provided one example and your other 'examples' (Nosler, and still waiting for your Hornady information) don't support you.
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If you look at all his comments and started threads. He is either trolling or blowing smoke. It's a waste of time to try discussing it.
 
Thanks everyone for the comments. Ive got a busy day today so I will respond with more info tomorrow.

One thing I've learned from this thread is COL can affect accuracy, didn't know that. I thought it was merely a safety thing.
 
Pahonix said:
Thoughts? Advice? Is this okay, bad, good?
Click to expand...
Some thoughts based on my test results with 9mm....
  • Use a single brand of brass when testing. The only reason to do "testing" is to do comparison which you can't do. In order to compare you need to eliminate multiple variables. Later on, you can load with mixed brass knowing it will be slightly more skewed during use.
  • Forget seating close to the lands. 9mm does much better when seated between 0.20 and 0.25" into the case.
  • Your target may be the main issue. The human eye needs an exact point to aim at. I highly doubt you could pick out and focus on the center of that particular target at 25 yds. You need a black bulls eye set on a white-ish background. The smaller the bull the better. Take a marker and draw a black bull on the same style target and I bet your groups will magically improve !!
Hope this helps.
 
A standard 8 x 11 blank sheet of paper. Put one as close to the center as you can and then shoot at that hole. I'd recommend that you start at 20/30' and work back.

X2 on get back off of jam
 
Bfh_auto said:
If you look at all his comments and started threads. He is either trolling or blowing smoke. It's a waste of time to try discussing it.
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He accuracy tests in a Ransom Rest shooting large groups, and if you don't, well, you're going to hear about it. He likes to bust my chops when I post nice groups and call the load accurate as well, so don't feel alone. :)
 
fxvr5 said:
Why are 5-shot groups better? You'll get smaller groups because there are less shots fired, but it will be less representative of the true accuracy.

Here's an article on the issue with 5-shot groups.
https://www.ssusa.org/articles/2019/9/25/accuracy-testing-shortcomings-of-the-five-shot-group/
Click to expand...
The issue with a 25 rounds group is shooter fatigue in concentration, eye strain, and physical fatigue.
I get better results stacking 4 5 shot group targets than I do running 1 twenty round target.
I do think you need to look for group rotating around the bullseye. A
Walkalong said:
He accuracy tests in a Ransom Rest shooting large groups, and if you don't, well, you're going to hear about it. He likes to bust my chops when I post nice groups and call the load accurate as well, so don't feel alone. :)
Click to expand...
I was referencing the 9mm/45 deer hunting guy.
I've read a lot of his posts and they're primarily dribble.

I enjoy seeing various ideas on accurate testing.
 
ausrobbo said:
Is that typical of the accuracy you see with other ammo? I can typically put 10 shots inside 2" at 25m with a rest. But a lot comes down to your skill and practice shooting for groups. If you ignore the flyers (likely you not the load) it's ok.
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Good question, I need to do the same with other ammo and check myself.
Hangingrock said:
Your statement is that you shot from bench rest. What did you rest/secure your handgun on and how did you hold your pistol? What was the focus of your sight picture? What was the trigger press weight? If your range has a 7/10Yd line start there then proceed out to 25Yds. Pistol accuracy is a matter of consistency on the shooters part if there are no discrepancies with the handgun an ammunition combination.
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The range I use has solid cement tables, they don't move. I put an MTM pistol rest on it like this.
Screenshot_20210419-002550_Amazon Shopping.jpg
.38 Special said:
Without meaning to offend the OP, it is enormously unlikely that the gun or load is shooting that poorly. If it is, then something is badly wrong and needs to be fixed.
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I'm not easily offended. I have great experience with long guns but would consider myself a novice when it comes to pistols.
bersaguy said:
I would take a look at few things, what is the diameter of the DG bullets, are they consistent? Also, what is the overall length of the loaded cartridge? Are you using a taper crimp die? Over-crimped cast bullets can effect accuracy. Are you getting any leading in the barrel? What do the ejected cases look like? From my limited experience with cast bullets, I find that bullet diameter and seating depth are the two biggest contributers to accuracy.
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I'm using a Lee 3 die set with the bullet set and crimp all in one. COL is close to 1.15 as I could get. I'll see if I can't get some picks soon of my spent spent casings.

After reading all the comments, I think I need to establish a base for my shooting, with factory ammo. This is target practice/range ammo. I have no plans of shooting competitions in the near future. I would like the ammo to be as accurate as possible for what I have (powder bullets) as it's been difficult to find other components.

I do have accurate #5 powder that I haven't tried. But I think I'll establish my base first and try a few different things with the titegroup. Maybe start at 3.6 and work up to 4.2. maybe 10 rounds each at different measurements.
rfwobbly said:
Some thoughts based on my test results with 9mm....
  • Use a single brand of brass when testing. The only reason to do "testing" is to do comparison which you can't do. In order to compare you need to eliminate multiple variables. Later on, you can load with mixed brass knowing it will be slightly more skewed during use.
  • Forget seating close to the lands. 9mm does much better when seated between 0.20 and 0.25" into the case.
  • Your target may be the main issue. The human eye needs an exact point to aim at. I highly doubt you could pick out and focus on the center of that particular target at 25 yds. You need a black bulls eye set on a white-ish background. The smaller the bull the better. Take a marker and draw a black bull on the same style target and I bet your groups will magically improve !!
Hope this helps.
Click to expand...
Trying a different target is a good idea and I have some available.

Unfortunately, I only have access to range brass, it I think I'll do some more sorting and try to separate the brands.

Thanks to all for the comments and advice, I really appreciate it. Still new to relapsing and have a lot to learn. I just got the lee manual in the other day so I'm going to take some time to read that and try to get a little better at reloading.
 
Pahonix said:
COL is close to 1.15 as I could get.
Click to expand...
IMHO, this is a problem area. Like NASA holding rockets on the pad until full thrust is achieved, the bullet needs to be held inside the case longer. This is done with deeper seating of the bullet.

Try an OAL around 1.110" for 115gr, and an OAL of 1.125" for 124gr. I think you'll see an improvement.
 
rfwobbly said:
IMHO, this is a problem area. Like NASA holding rockets on the pad until full thrust is achieved, the bullet needs to be held inside the case longer. This is done with deeper seating of the bullet.

Try an OAL around 1.110" for 115gr, and an OAL of 1.125" for 124gr. I think you'll see an improvement.
Click to expand...
Thanks! I will give that a try.
NMexJim said:
I personally like AA#5 better than TG.
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I havent opened it yet, but I was thinking about testing it out when I do some different powder charges testing.
 
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