Even In Failure We Can Learn

fail better...

DMW1116 said:

Since my testing is limited for now I’ll probably go with the cheat sheet method.

Click to expand...

My Cheat Sheet method- plus the sharpie transfers to the bullet hole in the paper target

I use a black or red sharpie and write load data on the cases, powder, charge wt, bullet type and length.

I use a little more labor intensive method. It works well for me since I'm usually loading at least 3rds of each test charge or seat depth. I use ziplock Snack size bags for each mini lot and label each bag as well as using a sharpie to number the each case in the bags to track case weight and/or seat depth. I keep the finished bags in an ammo box, separate ammo boxes for different calibers or rifles.

DMW1116 said:

So I had a mixed bag testing some stuff. I tested some Leverevolotion loads in a Marlin 30-30 with new Ranger Point peep sights, the traditional version. They grouped fine at 50 yards but went to pieces at 100. I’d like to zero the rifle/load combo at 4” high at 100 yards but they wouldn’t group well enough to zero. I have enough supplies to make 100 more of these, but it looks like I may have to back up and redo the load.

I also went to tests some 223 loads. These were with IMR 4064 and 77 grain SMK bullets. I learned I need to mark individual cartridges because on the way to the range my tray spilled and they got all mixed up. On the other hand I also learned a mixed bag of charge weights from 23 to 24.5 grains will still group about 1.25” at 100 yards or better. Looks like I have to do this one again too.

Click to expand...

I would suggest that before you try developing loads in your Marlin you determine the bullet jump. I only did that after shooting over 500 rounds through my Marlin 336





What I found was the throat was over a half inch away from the longest I could seat the bullet out, and have a loaded round eject. The longest I can load a bullet in my Marlin 336 is 2.550", any longer and I have to remove the lever and pull the bolt out. But, the throat of my rifle requires a OAL over 3.0" to touch the lands!

No inprint gun writer mentioned that in any articles!

But, after lots of load testing, the absolute best load, at 100 yards, was



this is about second



something that appears to be a pattern, your velocities need to be at factory, a little above and the groups go to hell in a handbasket





and they move! This high shot, is the high velocity shot



My lever action is extremely sensitive to velocity variations, and with a 170 grain bullet, it shoots best from 2100 to 2200 fps. A half a grain increase in load massively shifts the group. So look for powders that give tight extreme spreads in this cartridge.

My rifle consistently flung shots with Varget



This is a good powder to start with





Then IMR 4064 or AA 4064




In spite of all the sub MOA, or sub half MOA groups I have read in the in print literature, I have not found any of those claims credible. These guys shoot three shot groups and in every ten shot group, I have 3 and one third three shot groups. Nor am I taking the "average" of three, 3 shot groups, which give a delibrately deceptive better accuracy number, than the extreme spread of a ten shot group. Think about it, the average will always be less than the extreme spread. And these guys are shooting lets say, three five shot groups, and giving an average? What nonsense!


the only reason small bore prone has five shot targets at 50 yards, is because when you have guys who shoot like this, it is pretty hard to tell if there are five holes in the middle, never mind ten!

So they had to spread the targets out.







these were shot in competition by former National Champions. But they don't nearly shoot as well as in print gun writers, or the average internet poster.

Caution: all my loads are way over manual maximums. This is because Marlin reamed my chamber out with something that more closely resembled a ball park sausage, than a SAAMI spec reamer. The reason is simple, Marlin knew their customer. As they told me over the phone, they made these for the guys who shoot at 50 yards. What was not said, those same customers never clean their rifles, and shoot ammunition that Moses brought down from the Mountain Top. What was more important than absolute accuracy was that Marlin rifles chambered God awful ammunition, went bang, even though the rifle had never been cleaned, and the round extracted, even though there was enough crud in the chamber to pave a driveway.

A failure is just a test with unexpected results and/or unanticipated consequences!

heck, sometimes I think that’s the only way I learn anything at all!

I like belts and suspenders....
I mark the test rounds with a sharpie, segregate the loads into sharpie marked plastic bags, with a detailed paper note also in the bags. Then after testing, the cases get put back in the marked bags, and notations made on the paper slips.

a little extra effort up front makes for a lot less effort at the tail end

Recommended length is out the window on my model 94 as well. My mag/action limits me to about 2.72 and this still isn't anywhere near the lands.

My Cheat Sheet method- plus the sharpie transfers to the bullet hole in the paper target

Click to expand...

Yep, sharpies are your friend.
I mark all the bottoms of my reloads with a sharpie
blue =
red =
....

This is handy just in case for some reason you decide to pour them all out and mix them up together.......
(not that I would ever do that of course)

PS: Get the wide tip sharpies, quicker to mark, pack of 8 colors is like $8 at Wally World.

GoldieMI said:

My Cheat Sheet method- plus the sharpie transfers to the bullet hole in the paper target

Click to expand...

Can you share a target shot with bullets marked this way? I'm interested on how they mark the holes.
Also, what type of paint/marker are you using?

WeekendReloader said:

Can you share a target shot with bullets marked this way? I'm interested on how they mark the holes.
Also, what type of paint/marker are you using?

Click to expand...

Let me dig one up...I don't think I have one on my phone. Worse case I will shoot one this weekend for you
It's regular sharpies...but use the bold colors that show up darker rather than the lighter color ones. They color the holes in the target where the meplat/ogive tear the paper.

DMW1116 said:

Is there a reason the shots would be ok at 50 yards but not 100? I mean I know the groups will be bigger but this seems way off. The only thing I can figure is an operator head space error.

Click to expand...

My only thought is that maybe that particular bullet is too long or short for your rifling. That can cause long-range instability as the twist is wrong for the bullet's CoG. Fine at 50 yards - only partially unstable - but at 100 it's all over the target - still spinning on it central axis so no keyholing but changing direction with each spin due to flight instability. I tried a 220gr. "Dangerous Game" bullet in my .30-06 years ago and got that same thing. It was made for a much more powerful rifle with a longer twist rate than my 721's and was fine close in but no-go past the 100 yard line. IIRC, it keyholed at 150 yards.

Did you say this was the Hornady FTX? I'm pretty sure that bullet is supposed to be good to go for Marlin's micro-groove rifling but won't swear to it.

DMW1116 said:

I don’t think my 336 is microgrooved. It would be obvious when looking down the bore wouldn’t it? These are the FTX bullets, but my target above had a few M1 bullets on the far right. 110 grain RNFMJ. It’s going to take at least one more range trip to get this thing sorted out. That and possibly a fairly lengthy reloading session.

Click to expand...

That’s a head scratcher for sure. The nonmicrogroove Marlins are Ballard rifling I think. Wish I had a good idea to suggest but it don’t make sense for a Marlin .30-30 to not be accurate. Especially not with a powder and bullet practically made for it.

Once you have a good load, it's hard not to put it to use.

It dont' have to be that magic bullet thing - doesn't exist anyway, as you already know - it just has to punch holes on beasts where a hole does what it's supposed to: a humane kill.

Sounds like you've got it! Good going!