Ballistic Testing the NAA 22 Short mini revolver.

I had a Beretta 950 BS in .22 short for a long time. 2nd backup, jogging companion before newer options were available. I read many articles on .22 short performance and came to the conclusion that it is efficient in the shorter barrels. More so than the .22 LR. It is what it is and that doesn’t mean that it is as powerful what it means that it does not lose as much. I use .22 short in my Rossi revolver all the time as it is super quiet and is great for plinking. The Mini Gun has a niche, I would rather have one than a pointy stick or harsh words. Thanks for the testing, well done, well written.

Kleanbore said:

My choice is any service round with premium ammunition.

The firearm must be capable of one-handed rapid fire, and I have to be able to hit with it.

Click to expand...

Everyone would agree with that. He wasn’t comparing it to a 45 acp. The NAA mini revolver shines as a deep concealment gun. It can be very effective as a last ditch “get off me” gun. Or you got thrown in a trunk after being frisked. It is not easy to use but, with practice it gets better. Big hands can be a disadvantage. It’s also a FUN gun that some enjoy. YMMV

Cool test, I wondered for years how these would do. Frankly, it did better than I thought it would. I tend to look at a .22 short from that short of a barrel as little more than a pellet gun.

Thanks for taking the time to do this and post it.

CapnMac said:

It's interesting data, but it's only data.

Heads are mobile, especially under stress. One thing to note in OP's run of tests is how things change with only a few inches' difference in shot placement.

Your 'best' target area with the head is maybe a 4" square, and that square can easily move 4" and in several directions. This is why most instructors teach CoM, as that's an 8" target that only moves 3-4" maybe.

The other issue worth considering is barrier breaching, which is touched on above. How well would these tests gone if the round had needed to pass through a hand or arm raised in defense--which is a very likely thing given the liekly engagement ranges expected.

The .22 rounds can be very effective, OP's tests show this.

Click to expand...

Sorry if its not in good taste.

But Sirhan Sirhan proved the deadly effects of the .22 revolver on Robert Kennedy.

Facts beat tests & fiction.

Kleanbore said:

I have thought of that--quite seriously.

Now, I don't want anyone to take this as a criticism, but it occurs to me that he extremely short overall length, combined with the way it has to be manipulated, could make it more dangerous in terms of an ND in the wrong direction.

That, and the rather low usefulness quotient, have made me decide to not have one.

Click to expand...

You are very correct about the short frame is dangerous for inexperienced shooters who don’t think about it. The safest way to shoot it imho is to shoot 1 handed or tea cup method. People will inadvertently put their index finger on the muzzle or at least get cylinder burn. It is a niche gun for sure. Another danger is losing it out of a pocket. Anyone ever lose a pocket knife in a lazy boy? The OP did a good job on his data. I like threads like these no matter what firearms used.

Very interesting test. Thank you for posting it.
I sure as heck wouldn’t want to get shot with one. Not even a CB Cap.

I used to carry my .22 Magnum Mini, and regarded it as a last resort backup “get off me gun”. But I was never very comfortable shooting it because it was just too awkward to manipulate the action on the little thing. I can imagine how much tougher it would be to handle the .tiny 22 Short.

I'm reminded of an article on a S&W snubbie in .22 LR that I read in a gun mag. The author mentioned "putting it in the bad guy's tear ducts."

Yeah, right. While he's pumping 9mms or .45s into your torso.

Thanks for this test!

I always see ballistic dummies tested Vs swords and blades on shows like forged in fire etc.

I'd love to see more gun tests with them (I'd really love to see ballistic torso Vs 410 federal buckshot from sw gov.. It would settle a lot I bet).

How much did the skull run? If that's impolite I apologize. Feel free to message me if you prefer. I would like to try this someday.

You don't need to dig very deep to find many verifiable, successful uses of the naa mini type firearms deployed against criminals to stop a crime in commission (often attempted rape). I've read several cases. One was in California and no charged were filed against the women carrying the little revolver illegally. Most often the perp is killed, to perp no more.

Not a gun in existence has the carry profile of a mini. This means a lot of folks may have one with them when needed.

I think 22lr is most common. 36 gr cci mini mag hp do best and you'll get a reliable foot of penetration.

The testing confirms what I always suspected and I imagine 22lr would be quite similar.

On head shots it can kill, but the angle and area hit matters. Just like with 25 acp.

Once you get up to 32 acp, I think the reliability (energy) to overcome bone is there, so that a cheek shot etc will still defeat bone and enter the brain etc.

A very dear friend of mine (actually, I was her Sergeant for years before she retired) was the ultimate explorer and traveler.

She bought one of the little NAA .22LR as her “I’m going to have a gun, on me, wherever I am.

I came up with this for her. It’s pretty compact. She wore it in a waterproof bag on a lanyard around her neck on a river raft trip she did. Under her Life Jacket.


Optimal? Maybe not. But, it was on her 24/7.

Monac writes:

..but how likely is it I will have to defend myself against Robert Kennedy?

Click to expand...

Not very, now. Someone with a .22 already took care of that.

sgt127 said:

A very dear friend of mine (actually, I was her Sergeant for years before she retired) was the ultimate explorer and traveler.

She bought one of the little NAA .22LR as her “I’m going to have a gun, on me, wherever I am.

I came up with this for her. It’s pretty compact. She wore it in a waterproof bag on a lanyard around her neck on a river raft trip she did. Under her Life Jacket.
View attachment 998152View attachment 998153

Optimal? Maybe not. But, it was on her 24/7.

Click to expand...

Wow -- nice rig!

.

I recently go one of these with .22 and .22 mag cylinders. I got a pair of the fold out grips and do not find it difficult to shoot at all.

scaatylobo said:

Sorry if its not in good taste.

But Sirhan Sirhan proved the deadly effects of the .22 revolver on Robert Kennedy.

Click to expand...

Sirhan fired 8 shots. Three hit Kennedy. Two were not fatal hits. The one to the head was the fatal shot. IIRC it was behind the right ear. His other 5 shots hit others in the room. None of those were fatal.

Thanks for the test and the link to the Ballistic Dummies. All I can say is that the guys on Forged In Fired who chopped up so many of those $2000 dummies really went through some bucks.

And now maybe those who say a 22 goes in a head and bounces around will see what I've always said. It doesn't happen. It doesn't have the energy to "Bounce" around. Not in a head and not in a body. It might be deflected by bone but thats about it.

Several years ago in a town near me called Granbury Tx two punks broke in through the door of an old mans house who was sitting in his chair watching TV. He had one of these Mini Revolvers in his pocket at the time. He surprised the two robbers by shooting one of them twice and the other 3 times. He didn't kill them but he did stop the attack. He said he would have "shot them more if he had of had more bullets".

Nice test, interesting post.

That said, most of the time a LCP/P3AT 380 could likely be carried just as easily.
In the past, work clothes often limited me to a pocket 380 as the "best I could do".
Now, I am not limited by work clothes and I will not bet my life on (carry) less than 9mm, anywhere.

Thank you for a very informative test. This sort of post really contributes to our knowledge base.

As a sort-of aside, there recently was a bit of a dust-up in Louisville wherein protestors "swarmed" a restaurant and a patron pulled some sort of NAA mini. No shots were fired, but the crowd reaction to the gun was interesting. They either didn't notice the tiny gun, or did and were unimpressed by it. I wonder if the reaction would have been the same if the fellow had produced a full sized gun. If it is true that the mere act of producing a gun normally ends the majority of gunfights before they even start, it may be something worth considering.

Story and video here, for anyone interested.

Not an ideal mob gun

Personally, I look at the NAA .22LR/MAG derringers as basically being a last-ditch, "Onion Field" hideout weapon. Not so sure I'd go with the .22Short, though, although I'd not be surprised if some folks like it because it's a "neat" watch fob gun.

If anyone doesn't already know, you can find some NAA velocity testing at their website:
https://northamericanarms.com/ballistics/

I have an older .22LR, a newer .22MAG with the shortest barrel length, and a Black Widow with both LR and MAG cylinders. I wanted the BW for the 2" barrel length, some actual sights, and to take advantage of the then-new GDHP load (although I also picked up a couple of the Hornady FTX loads, since they were available at the time, too). I thought of the BW as being more or less a smaller and thinner type of "kit gun".

Here's a commercial "test" of the BW using the .22MAG GDHP load in bare gel and denim.


If anyone is interested, here's some independent lab testing of some NAA guns Other links at bottom of first page.
https://northamericanarms.com/testing/#1462642032281-fc668c62-551e

When I tried some standard Winchester .22 MAG, along with the GDHP and one of the FTX MAG loads, I was able to get some pretty decent accuracy out to 10yds, no doubt due to the larger grip and some 3-dot sights. Interestingly, the best accuracy came from using the LR cylinder and Stingers. That combo surprisingly made my BW into a tackdriver. Naturally, running the various NAA's through one of the usual "qual" courses meant keeping the distances under 11yds, and LOTS of time reloading.

I still look at the NAA guns as being a couple of ladder rungs below one of my LCP's, and I look at those as being at the bottom of the "minimally adequate" threshold. Not everyone may be familiar with working a SA revolver under even moderate range "stress", let alone a really diminutive SA revolver. Better than no gun? Arguably ... probably. Capable of producing lethal GSW's? Yes, still a firearm.

Then again, I remember when the old High Standard DAO 2-shot derringers were popular for secondary weapons, in both LR and MAG. I remember when you could occasionally learn of an agency who bought them and offered them for officers, too.

Last ditch, close range last chance weapon. Pretty unobtrusive hideout weapon that could be discreetly carried. Easier to shoot in one respect, being DAO (albeit with a long and hard trigger pull), but also with only 2 rounds.

I have a friend (another retired peace officer and former firearms trainer) who usually carried 2-3 guns at the same time as retirement weapons. His "3rd" gun is often a Walther TPH .22LR, a LCP, a S&W .22MAG kit gun ... or a .22LR NAA.

Personally, I don't envision the limited "role" of carrying a NAA as being a gun that's going to be presented for potential threats to "see". I see it as one that's going to make noise when a threat is going to be wondering what's making that noise.

I know a retired agency Rangemaster who said he sometimes drops a 2-shot derringer into a pocket in some circumstances where he may not be carrying a centerfire retirement CCW. He describes it being something that would be employed really close, meaning the threat probably would think it was a punch to a sensitive anatomical spot being delivered ... but accompanied with a loud noise.

Hey, lots of folks, even experienced folks, can have their own opinions. It only has to work for them.

The 13 'wounds' may not have been fatal but painful is certainly true. If the attacker was still alive after 13 fired rounds, the cause of death was likely boredom.

Even a small gun is better than no gun in a self-defense situation.

Ethan Verity said:

The gun's size may not have made any difference in how they reacted to it.

Click to expand...

No but the first shot would have.

As a Police Chaplain I attended a number of suicides. The bloodiest ever was a guy who offed himself in a motel room using a Beretta .22 Short pistol. He put it up against his temple and fired. He must have thrashed around a bit as he bled out, since there was considerable blood spray on the walls and headboard. He finally collapsed on the bed, and the covers were saturated in blood, along with the carpet. There was no discernable exit wound.

The least bloody ever was a young lady, also in a motel room, who put Dad's .45 ACP Glock up against her temple. She slumped over, the pistol cycled, and then rotated in the hand pointing away. There was one drop of blood on her forearm, and the bullet exited the other side of her head, went through the wall into the adjoining room, and came to rest on the carpet after bouncing off a dresser.

I can only guess that in the second case, her system shut down immediately and the heart stopped pumping right away, while the guy with the .22 continued to pump out blood until he was almost dry.