XTP bullet seating variations - 38 Special - what's normal?

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JD Fla1

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I picked up some new (38 special) Hornady .357 xtp hollow points with/c...125g.
they actually measured .356 - both boxes...
I'm using the Lee 4 die set on this, I have a mighty armory f.l.r. and flare die for this, but something is amiss there. I'll post another thread for that.
Anyway, since I'm new to this, I need to ask some questions as I am alone in this venture.
My cases are assorted range brass in sizes from 1.138 to 1.147 in length after cleaning and sizing,
The hollow points when seated are coming out at 1.447 to 1.452 my target is1.450
I'm using an auto breechlock pro. all 4 holes are filled.
I've recheck - reseated - ran about a dozen cases through slowly turning down till I hit my target, several times..
I can tell the tips on the bullets are not perfect, so that is probably what is going on.
What input would you guys have on this?
they'll be put to use on a j frame snubby I have.
also, following the new Hornady book..

oh, 1 more thing. I have quite a little bullet bulge line around the case at the bullet bottom after all is done, but it still fits in the Brass colored chamber gauge I have with no problem.
 
Tricky measuring these because the seat is off the ogive (which is likely less variable than the bullet length from forming the JHP). Do all the bullets measure same length? What truly matters of course is the depth of the base of the bullet in the case, and COAL is not necessarily a direct measurement of that
 
The ogive on bullets won't always be the same thus they will seat slightly different. 005" is nothing to be concerned about. The tip of the bullet really doesn't have any effect. The ogive distance would have more of an effect. And since you are seating using the ogive they all are more similar than you think. No 2 bullets are the same even in the same lot.
 
That is no big deal as others post. The thing for consistant ammo would be to have the brass all the same length so the actual crimp is the same tension in them all. I am not so particular on case length but I make sure when the bullets are seated and crimped in the crimp groove on the majority, they end in the middle of the cannalure. Figured out long ago case length and crimp variations were not something where I could detect differences with on target so why obsess over that.
 
Thanks for the replies.
As I see it from your responses..
I understand that for a consistent crimp, the cases need to be close in size. I'll set the crimp using a case which is at .144
I may cull out the less than .141 cases and save them separate. It's not like I need to produce a mass amount of this caliber. I have around 700 cases.
These are seating at the upper third of the cannelure, so this should be ok.
What about this bulge. Is this Lee die acting like a small base die? Or maybe some of these cases have thicker case walls..
another note: .356 dia. bullet is what I have. The Hornady bullet box is marked .357, and if they were, these jacketed bullets would not fit in the case very well.
 
JD Fla1 said:
they actually measured .356 - both boxes...
Click to expand...
Not that it will make a huge difference but I’d expect Hornady’s to measure .357” diameter. You may want to check your measuring device.
As others have posted, the -.003/+.002, is within the range I see as well and isn’t an issue. I’m presuming you’ve determined max COL for your gun so the plus side of your tolerance won’t be an issue? I’m not sure what the seating stem looks like so you may be hitting the point or the ogive, I’ve had XTPs deform a bit as the the RCBS seater I was using crushed them slightly. I had to make an XTP seater.
The slight bulge you’re seeing is actually a good thing given it clears the case gauge. It shows a good tension on the bullet to prevent setback, which you checked, right?
.38 is one cartridge I’ll trim since I put a roll crimp on, but depending on your FCD it might not be a problem. And your case lengths are pretty short anyway. Let us know how they fire? Good luck.
 
I have seen elsewhere, maybe even here, since I like to read up on related posts, that the .356 dia. on that bullet is normal. I measure many of the 2 boxes I have.
I have only 1 tool, a relatively new Igaging EZCAL caliper, the 30/40.00 variety one. The Lee seating stem is for round nose, and it may not be perfect that crunchy top bullet.
I can not move that bullet after seating, it's in there solid. I'll still use the C.F.C. die to put a small crimp into the cannelure.

Now, I mentioned the Mighty Armory sizing die earlier. That die needs a .357 diameter bullet, I can push a bullet down into the case with little force after sizing, and a tiny flare put on it, to get it started.

buy another caliper?
 
I’ve not purchased the 125gr XTP .38’s so I can’t mike them. Perhaps someone else on the forum can. You calipers may be correct, but it’s possible for them to be a thousandth’s off. This is from the Hornady manual:
IMG_0681.jpg
If you can’t move that bullet after seating, you’re GTG. If the Mighty Armory die leaves you with little neck tension for your application, I wouldn’t use it. The crimp step is not for adding neck tension, that’s developed during the sizing step. Good luck.
 
i measure .357" for that bullet: 0716210658.jpg 0716210700.jpg 0716210700a.jpg . the third pic is the bullet measured 90 degrees out.

measure the case wall o.d. @ where the bullet is seated and just below where the bullet is seated. the difference is your bullet/case tension. for a 38 special, one to two thou is good. for a 357 magnum, four thou is minimum imo.

your seater plug is probably hitting the meplat (tip) of the bullet. don't worry about it as the bullet is quite tough.

i'd load em and shoot em,

murf
 
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I have never even measured the OAL for loads with the Hornady XTP in the 2 calibers I load (.357 and .41). I just seat them to where I want them in the cannelure. Could not care less if the tips vary. The bullets look like they seat consistently judging by looking at where they are in the cannelure. They all look the same in a batch. I do worry about seating depth when I load 9 mm. But not a lot since my only 9mm is a revolver. I just make sure I am not seating them too deep for the load selected. With a 125 bullet in a .357 you are going to have a huge space over the power and I doubt if seating depth variation means much in terms of pressure or accuracy.
 
Are you hand charging through die? Does that work ok for you? There are a few low-charge weight / high yield powders I might be uncomfortable with as they stick to everything.
 
Now - you got me thinking about my caliper, I thought it was pretty decent, just not one of those Mitutoyo models.
In no way do any of the bullets I measure come out to .357 - the caliper arms are thin, and the micrometer you have covers a lot more bullet surface. I'm not saying that could be a factor, but just saying. All this info is good for me, I'm a hands on guy, good with tools, so I like to be a little picky also.

Yes, I think I'm going to give that Lee flare and powder through the die a shot. I just received the RCBS Chargemaster Lite dispenser/scale and I have 2 throwers - Lee deluxe PPM and the regular PPM. Anxious to see all four cylinders working at once in this A.B.L.Pro. and the 4 tube case collator.
I prime by hand -
I'll watch for the powder sticking, I did clean the hell out of those dies before I used them, and no lube is being used in this setup. I bought some very fine graphite powder to put on the end of a q-tip, and I'm using that everywhere powder may sit or land on, beforehand. I'm hoping that will help.
 
lordpaxman said:
I’ve not purchased the 125gr XTP .38’s so I can’t mike them. Perhaps someone else on the forum can. You calipers may be correct, but it’s possible for them to be a thousandth’s off. This is from the Hornady manual:
View attachment 1011946
If you can’t move that bullet after seating, you’re GTG. If the Mighty Armory die leaves you with little neck tension for your application, I wouldn’t use it. The crimp step is not for adding neck tension, that’s developed during the sizing step. Good luck.
Click to expand...

Yes, on not using that M.A. die for this size bullet, I have to find out what's going with that expensive die, it's advertised for .356 and .357 bullets. It also says in the specs , that its adjustable for those bullets, I don't know if that's possible, but I will inquire with the owner. I have 5 other dies from them, no problems with the others.
 
I'm waiting on a new caliper, got to have something to compare it to I guess. Those .357 bullets measuring at .356 are bugging me.
 
Hornady .357" diameter bullets measure .357" your measuring devise is likely off, this has been my experience.
Nosler .357" measure .3565", I've complained about this to Nosler and only hear crickets.
 
JD Fla1 said:
just not one of those Mitutoyo models.
Click to expand...
the micrometer is actually a starrett. i found this in a mitutoyo box at a swap meet in prescott, arizona. the price on the box was ten dollars. i snatched it up as a mitutoyo micrometer value is much more than that. imagine my surprise when i opened the box and the name on the micrometer was starrett!

anyway, a good micrometer is a valuable tool for the handloader. i use mine to mic bullet bore and groove diameters mostly. i have a cheap caliper for everything else.

murf
 
…What about this bulge. Is this Lee die acting like a small base die? Or maybe some of these cases have thicker case walls…
Click to expand...

It depends on the size of the bulge. It sounds like it might be excessive although it’s probably not hurting a jacketed bullet. A cast bullet might be deformed though. IME some carbide dies do size the case too small, a few Lee dies comes to mind. But it is probably a cosmetic issue rather than a problem.




.
 
FWIW; I can't remember when I last measured OAL of any revolver handload (38Sp., 357 Mag, 44 Sp., 44 Mag., 45 Colt). I use 90% cast bullets and seat bullets to the crimp groove. My jacketed handloads the bullet is seated to the cannelure and I don't use smooth sided (plated) bullets in revolvers. I seat to the groove/cannelure and disregard book OAL. I figgered long ago the bullet designers knew where to locate the groove/cannelure and I have rarely found seating to the groove/cannelure rarely matches book OAL. In 40+ years of revolver handloads I have never had a problem from seating as such and assembled many very accurate loads (more accurate than I can shoot!)...
 
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Yes, being a low load pressure round, most loaders seat to the cannelure, I've been setting to the upper third on the bullet. I'm just trying to figure out how to keep this xtp a certain length.
I'll finally load them up with some powder this weekend and try them out. I'll use the middle loads on the Horn-e-day chart, and I'll try to get a pic here of the bulge.
 
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