Am I alone in having a hard time with red dot sights?

Red dots, IMO, require greater concentration as they magnify every tiny movement of ones stance and grip on the pistol. I personally find them difficult in an off hand shooting position. Bench or steady rest on rifles they are awesome.
Perhaps there’s a reason many are called “reflex” sights.

Due to my middle aged eyes, I'm better with a red dot on a target/plinking pistol than I am with standard sights. I have yet to try a red dot on a defensive pistol of any kind yet.

The hardest part on a pistol red dot is learning to find the dot. But shooting with the dot is easy. Focus on the target and let the dot come onto the target. Look through the red dot, if that makes more sense.

Focusing on the dot like an iron sight is counterproductive to what a red dot is meant for, in my experience.

When you get accustomed to using a red dot, it's almost like the dot is a part of the lens of your eye. It can feel downright natural over time. Maybe not for all folks, but definitely for others.

IMO, it's probably best to start with a red dot on a rimfire pistol. This will allow you a lot more inexpensive and low recoil practice time to get used to finding and looking through the dot.

brutus51 said:

Makes sense but where were you before I made the purchase.

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Lol. Sorry I wasn't there for ya.

I first flirted with red dots with a cheap sight on a Glock G29 that went in the dovetail. I liked it so I invested in a Glock G19 Gen 5 MOS and a Burris Fastfire III. I was rewarded with absolutely impressive 1" groups at 25 yards...



So I started carrying that pistol for CCW. Complete with backup tall sights in case the optic was disabled. I discovered that it was noticeably bulkier to carry, snagged on the dray due to the giant front sight, and the sight attracted lint and dirt quickly in normal everyday use. So, I removed the sight. Then I bought a P365 for carry a year ago and love it. I recently put the RMR back on the G19 for range use and am amazed at how much more accurate I am with it.

I am very much tempted by the P365X Romeo package as it may just combine the best elements of the P365 TacPac and the G19 MOS.

The red dot on my 356 XL Romeo is the easiest sight of that type I have ever used. I just look thru it and there is the dot plus the iron sights. I tried the gun using iron sights and then the dot. The dot shrunk my groups by about half. This was before getting my cataracts fixed. The results with the irons should be better now but I haven't shot the gun yet. The dot and the target are in the same plane. Just impose the dot on the target and pull the trigger. There is no trying to focus on one or the other as both are in focus.

RDS are a blessing for those of us with OES (old eye syndrome). But they take time to master. Especially after years and years of shooting with irons. You have to get your eyes use to threat focusing and let everything else come into it own. It will, just takes time. And thousands of reps and weapon presentations. No way around it, no short cuts, no magic pill. One thing that helps me was to leave the tall backups off for the first two months. That and a day course with a good instructor that can fix your problems and aid you. Much better than just winging it with YouTube videos.

I just sent my G26 slide off to be milled for an optic cut. Might do the same for my P365, but I don’t really carry it so maybe not. Just a tad too small for my hands and the RDSs available to mount on them are very small. I do believe the G26 is the smallest I will go for a RDS.

Lefty

I shoot a dot well at speed, but am less accurate slow fire with them. I believe that is because with irons, I am focused on sight alignment and linearly adding pressure to the trigger. The target is fuzzy and so doesn't add any stress to the process. With the dot, the target is clear, and there is a tendency to slap at the trigger whenever the dot wanders over the bull. It takes a great deal of discipline to avoid that, and I never have mastered it.

brutus51 said:

I'll just have to learn with what I got because these dot's are expensive. What really hurts is a $10. box of 50 9mm's is now going for $40. in some places, I'd reload them but my small pistol primer supply is spoken for.

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I think chicharrones nailed it. If you've been shooting iron sights your whole life, you'll have some unlearning to do. I had a red dot on a rifle a long time ago and took it off. I ended up putting another red dot on a different gun mostly for something different.

Using a red dot seems more like shooting a shotgun. You really have to use both eyes. As far as practice, dry firing is your friend.

There is some learning when moving to a red dot. My experience, as I've mentioned in several posts on several boards is different than many others. I put a Trijicon RMR on a Glock 23c several years ago when I was having vision difficulties with cataracts. Since my cataract issues are over thanks to a superb surgeon (and cute once I got better vision), it has only gotten better. I don't "chase" the dot, it's cowitnessed with the suppressor sights. It rides well both in the IWB and OWB holsters I have. I do well with it in my annual LEOSA requalifications. I would guess 95% of the rounds sent downrange were 357SIG, not 40S&W. Apparently some folks report all kinds of difficulties. Some of the biggest complaints I've heard coming from folks who don't seem to have much (or in some cases any) experience using a dot from their own comments. Some of these complaints may be true. I don't know them or their circumstances. If they have a problem, then it's a problem to them and they need to figure out how to fix it. I'm just saying I didn't have any of the problems other report. I'm good with it. I just put a Holosun 507k on my new Ruger Max-9 and after two clicks up, it's dead on with my ammo. I'm going to continue using them. If I run into someone at the range using a dot, I'll nod my head and move on. If I see someone at the range using irons, I'll nod my head and move on.

brutus51 said:

I seem to be much more accurate with iron sights.

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Sounds absurd at first, but perhaps there is an explanation.

First of all, we don't know what your standard of accuracy is. The only word is "much", so let's say your group is 2 times larger with the dot. We still don't know if you're gone from 2 inch at 25 yards to 4 inch or from 6 inch to 12 inch. The first case is probably just dot chasing.

Because it's easier to see the "wobble" with the dot, some people victimize their progressive trigger squeeze. They try to catch the dot on the target instead. Don't do that. Remember that your irons wander just the same, it's just easier to see the dot. So, focus on the trigger control instead.

Keep in mind what chicharrones said: if you're used to focusing at the front sight, don't. You need to look through the sight and at the target.[1]

If your standard is more like the 2nd case, then t's possible that your optic is not installed right and wobbles or the gun is otherwise inaccurate. I'd give it to someone else, preferably a younger person, to run a test.

Finally, I don't have actual trigger time on Romeo, but I know that some self-defense sights have oversized dots on purpose. It allows dots to be not as bright, which makes them easier on the eyes in the dark. Maybe you need a sight that projects a triangle with a sharp tip.

[1] Some people say that dot is "focused on infinity". What it means is that the light reflects off the whole surface of the lens, and exiting rays are parallel. The actual light beam is as large as the sight! But your eye re-focuses it and converts it into the dot that the rest of your brain sees. That's why it's also said "there is no dot". Therefore, if you subconsciously focus on the front sight, the dot will become blurry. Unfortunately, the same thing happens if you are a little nearsighted, but then you cannot make your eye focus "on infinity". The only fix is a set of prescription shooting glasses.

As a new red dot user myself, I can point you to several hints.
1. Using RDS, your focus should be on the target, not the dot or the front sight.
2. It will likely take thousands of dry fire events and some live fire to adjust to this new target-focus mode.
3. Do not try to put the dot in the center of the viewer frame, or sitting on the aligned iron sights (if your gun has co-witness iron). If the target is in focus and the red dot is anywhere in the frame and on your point of aim, the gun is aimed and ready to fire.
3. Excellent YouTube guidance on changing to RDS can be found by looking for red dot videos by Brian Hill, John Correia, Scott Jedilinski (Jedi), and a few others. Many of these (from all three) are in Correia's Active Self Protection Extra channel on YouTube.

Still learning this myself.

mokin said:

I think chicharrones nailed it. If you've been shooting iron sights your whole life, you'll have some unlearning to do. I had a red dot on a rifle a long time ago and took it off. I ended up putting another red dot on a different gun mostly for something different.

Using a red dot seems more like shooting a shotgun. You really have to use both eyes. As far as practice, dry firing is your friend.

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mokin, I was going to start a thread but I found this one. Just like a lot of us, I'm just getting used to red dot shooting. But I think I made a breakthrough last range visit - I started looking through the RD to see the target, and all of a sudden, everything was more relaxed and easy. And the dot got sharper (I have astigmatism)!! Anyway, I was going to ask if switching from being front-sight-focused to being target-focused is how you experienced "red dot guys" do it. But from reading this thread and others, I think that's how it's done.

I started shooting red dot sights on my revolver over 30 years ago. It took a bit of a learning curve but it can be faster and more reliable that iron sights.

Focus on the target, not the sight. It's going to wobble but let it float around. Your area of wobble will get smaller, just remember it's always traveling towards the center of the target and even if you are off by a bit you will hit center. The mind plays powerful tricks.

I haven't gone through all of the replies for this thread because of limited amount of time. Your loss of accuracy might be because of how you shoot vs using a red dot. If you are a good shooter then you are focusing on the front sight. Now that you are shooting with a red dot chances are that your focus is shifting from the target to the red dot because the red dot offers both to focus on at the same time. When you shift your focus from the target to the red dot this will make for less accuracy because your shots will jump around. I suggest that you focus on the target and not red dot. I't a safe bet your shot groups will get smaller.

I might go to a red dot sight at some point but for now, doing just fine with irons and CTC lasergrips. That's a good thing as the pistols I like don't mate at all with red dot sights.

chicharrones said:

Due to my middle aged eyes, I'm better with a red dot on a target/plinking pistol than I am with standard sights.

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I'm just the opposite. I shoot much better with irons. But, I may have some (re)learning to do. This thread has lots of good points...

A little background. I am left handed and cross eye dominant. So every time I obtain a firearm, I have to adjust the rear sight or else I'll be off the target. It doesn't matter the make or type of handgun, I always have to adjust the rear sight for my sight picture (yes I could adjust, but if it's a personal handgun, I like to have the sight picture aligned as it should be).

So, I got a red dot cut on my M&P 2.0 9mm awhile back (thinking it would help). I had the option to put on higher sights as well. I Inquired with the company making the cut, and read on the forums here. The only advantage that I saw at the time was, being able to use iron sights in case the Red Dot gave out. In my case I went with just a Red Dot and kept the original M&P sights. This meant that if the red dot was mounted, I couldn't use the sights. But I could use the sights, if I removed the red dot.

I received the slide back and put on the red dot. I was hitting the target, but I didn't feel like I was consistent enough in getting good shot groups (>10 yards). The main issue I had is as everyone mentioned, getting the red in your sight do when you draw from the holster. I would have to move the handgun around until I located the sight, then aim and shoot. I'm sure it was not a slow as it felt, but it kind of bothered me. It seemed to me that because I've used iron sights for so long, I was just more comfortable with them. Target acquisition and accuracy, to me, just felt better with the iron sights.

Being that I had a problem with the reference point (maybe self conscious about looking for the dot), I decided to install tall sights (suppressor sights). I finally found a company that makes M&P tall sights that fit onto the original M&P sight grooves on the slide. I received and installed them. I made sure that the iron sights were aligned and then added the red dot. Once I had all three aligned, drawing from a holster and acquiring the dot was much faster. For me. I still have to practice more, but I think, that because some of us are so accustomed to iron sights, the Red dot just seems harder to adjust to. I like the red dot, but without reference points and just aligning the dot on the center, it seems like confidence for me is lacking. Now with the sights as reference, it seems faster to acquire the dot (and the target). accuracy is good, but I haven't done a comparison yet. In hindsight, could I just have stayed with iron sights? probably (short term), but one thing I'm starting to see is that more and more shooters (manufacturers are making their firearms red dot ready) are moving to red dot sights. For me, I like to have familiarity on firearms and shooting different types of guns with different types of target acquisition systems be it iron or technology.

Now I have my favorite goto firearm with the red dot installed and I'm happy. Additionally, if I would have waited a few years, S&W now makes red dot cut M&P 2.0 firearms. Grrr. But I digress.

GL

CH

brutus51 said:

I'm giving up, took the P365 XL with me to the range today and I'm all over the map with it. This is my fourth outing with the Remeo red dot and as hard as I try I just can't seem to get the hang of it Tomorrow when I clean the pistol off comes the red dot.

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Send it to me. It would look sweet on top of my Sig 38 Super

I have zero experience shooting with red dots, but had been really contemplating it. Not sure I wanna have a slide cut in case I'm just as terrible shooting them. Maybe I'll pick up a cheap 1911 and stick one on to try.

Purchased a Sig P320XL with Red Dot. Could not be happier, helped my accuracy a lot and have no issues in finding the red dot. Just start out with your normal grip and presto the red dot is exactly where you sights were.