I've Never Handloaded Before

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A common response.
Load Fg powder, wads, filler, various non-gunpowder crap to take the sting out of the overly long round.

Think back to olden times; the Creedmoor match at 1000 yards, commonly shot with things like .44-90 and .45 2.4, 2.6, 2 7/8". Maximum weight for the rifle was 10 lbs and minimum trigger pull 3 lb.
 
doubleh said:
Try a 50-140. That "ouch" will become a big, fat "OW" Mine has become a 50-70. Thanks, cornmeal, for your help.Iit still gets my attention but nearly as noticeably as the 140 load..
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you have a 50-140?
 
Jim Watson said:
A common response.
Load Fg powder, wads, filler, various non-gunpowder crap to take the sting out of the overly long round.

Think back to olden times; the Creedmoor match at 1000 yards, commonly shot with things like .44-90 and .45 2.4, 2.6, 2 7/8". Maximum weight for the rifle was 10 lbs and minimum trigger pull 3 lb.
Click to expand...
Back in the early days of Western-style shooting clubs, I met a guy who shot club rifles - rolling block, falling block and such - at 1000 yards and more with BP. These were paper-patched lead bullets rolled the old way, using balloon head cases and welded case heads. He was mighty upset the "cowboy crowd" wouldn't let him compete with his long, 10lb (+) rifle and even more upset no one in the club would even consider creating a long range 19th Century style competition. He left in a bit of a huff - with me close on his heels when I was told I couldn't compete with my genuine 19th Century cartridge black powder 1888 French artillery revolver or my 1889 Webley .450/.476 Adams because, as double-action revolvers they weren't "authentic." The fellows who shoot those competitions are a whole different breed of shooter. I handled that rolling block and have to say, I wouldn't want to carry it much farther than to the car but, setup for prone shooting it was mighty comfortable. It had some kind of funky single-point standing pivot like a shooting stump or something and a stock that was shaped like a Stradivarius - a fancy fiddle. This was around 1987 in south Brevard County, Florida, when I was working for Piper Cub and had little time to shoot, and no space to handload, but had lots of old BP rounds to burn off, some genuine Victorian Era garb, and "western shooting" sounded like fun. Too bad the local nobs were such sticks in the pants.
 
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GeoDudeFlorida said:
Back in the early days of Western-style shooting clubs, I met a guy who shot club rifles - rolling block, falling block and such - at 1000 yards and more with BP. These were paper-patched lead bullets rolled the old way, using balloon head cases and welded case heads. He was mighty upset the "cowboy crowd" wouldn't let him compete with his long, 10lb (+) rifle and even more upset no one in the club would even consider creating a long range 19th Century style competition. He left in a bit of a huff - with me close on his heels when I was told I couldn't compete with my genuine 19th Century cartridge black powder 1888 French artillery revolver or my 1889 Webley .450/.476 Adams because, as double-action revolvers they weren't "authentic." The fellows who shoot those competitions are a whole different breed of shooter. I handled that rolling block and have to say, I wouldn't want to carry it much farther than to the car but, setup for prone shooting it was mighty comfortable. It had some kind of funky single-point standing pivot like a shooting stump or something and a stock that was shaped like a Stradivarius - a fancy fiddle. This was around 1987 in south Brevard County, Florida, when I was working for Piper Cub and had little time to shoot, and no space to handload, but had lots of old BP rounds to burn off, some genuine Victorian Era garb, and "western shooting" sounded like fun. Too bad the local nobs were such sticks in the pants.
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Was the guy’s name Matthew Quigley by any chance?
 
Jim Watson said:
Well your Lee Loader has an instruction sheet with pictures and everything. Do what it says up until you get to the part about powder.
Dump in enough powder that seating the bullet will mash it down a bit. Not too much, that will distort the bullet and accuracy will be poor. You can make a dipper by cutting off a case to the right length and gluing or soldering on a handle.
Use a dowel to push a snug wad down onto the powder.
Seat the bullet like the instructions say.

You don't have to buy wads. Take an extra empty case, use a deburring tool or countersink or knife point to sharpen the mouth. Whack it down on cardboard tablet backing or milk carton cardboard to cut wads.

Bullets should be moderately soft cast, not pure lead like you need for a muzzleloader. The Army used 405 grain bullets to start, 500 grain later. I think Sharps used 460 or 480 grain bullets.
My neighbor the gunsmith used this one.
https://www.buffaloarms.com/459-395-grain-rn-hand-cast-b-457124-459.html
The bullet lube is IMPORTANT, it must be for black powder, SPG is one brand.
A hard cast bullet with hard blue wax will not work at all.

If a buffalo hunter could load ammo in camp in the 1870s, surely you can manage it.
I doubt they really dug the bullets out of buffalo carcasses to melt down and cast new, though. There are period records of orders of cases of paper patch bullets, kegs of powder, and lots of primers.
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Actually if it's that easy I just might do it. First off though I need to wait for my back order to come through, shoot those off then buy primers and bullets. Who knows how long it will be to get my back order filled or when primers will become available at normal prices. Thanks for the link also.
 
It is not bad, this reloading stuff that is. You could take some of your waiting time to study a manual some and realize that some stuff in there might actually be helpful. I think you want accurate ammo and things learned will help to that end. Dont forget to clean the rifle ASAP as the black powder will ruon the thing if not cleaned soon and well to get rid of the salts. Your info that comes with the kit works as basic instructions but when using Black powder you need it at least slightly compressed and to use special lubed bullets. Use your google fo to look for 45-70 black powder loading. It's out there. Have fun and do it safely.
Don't forget to come back and fill us in on your journey. It'll help the next guy.
 
FROGO207 said:
It is not bad, this reloading stuff that is. You could take some of your waiting time to study a manual some and realize that some stuff in there might actually be helpful. I think you want accurate ammo and things learned will help to that end. Dont forget to clean the rifle ASAP as the black powder will ruon the thing if not cleaned soon and well to get rid of the salts. Your info that comes with the kit works as basic instructions but when using Black powder you need it at least slightly compressed and to use special lubed bullets. Use your google fo to look for 45-70 black powder loading. It's out there. Have fun and do it safely.
Don't forget to come back and fill us in on your journey. It'll help the next guy.
Click to expand...
I've been shooting BP muzzleloading weapons almost all my life so yeah I know how to clean em, hot water works best. Thanks for reiterating what a couple of others have said, I appreciate it. :thumbup:
 
kje54 said:
I've been shooting BP muzzleloading weapons almost all my life so yeah I know how to clean em, hot water works best. Thanks for reiterating what a couple of others have said, I appreciate it. :thumbup:
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Hot Water?!? here a stupid question, won’t that rust?
 
Mark_Mark said:
Hot Water?!? here a stupid question, won’t that rust?
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I take my black powder revolvers, remove the grips and boil them for 10 minutes, change the water and as it is warming up scrub the outside, cylinders, and bore. Then boil it again. When it is fished out with a stiff wire the revolver is so hot the water all evaporates shortly. Oil/grease as needed and put away. Been doing this for years and the revolvers look like new, no rust.
Hot enough water and no rust problems with a rifle either. Just use a tea kettle to heat it to boiling pour and swab, pour and swab. Once water comes clear clean like any other rifle that was used outdoors in wet weather. None of those Mosins hade anything but corrosive ammo all their life!
 
FROGO207 said:
I take my black powder revolvers, remove the grips and boil them for 10 minutes, change the water and as it is warming up scrub the outside, cylinders, and bore. Then boil it again. When it is fished out with a stiff wire the revolver is so hot the water all evaporates shortly. Oil/grease as needed and put away. Been doing this for years and the revolvers look like new, no rust.
Hot enough water and no rust problems with a rifle either. Just use a tea kettle to heat it to boiling pour and swab, pour and swab. Once water comes clear clean like any other rifle that was used outdoors in wet weather. None of those Mosins hade anything but corrosive ammo all their life!
Click to expand...
Now I think about it, years ago, I did boil a Mosin and a type 99. I remember seeing it on youtube.
 
Mark_Mark said:
Hot Water?!? here a stupid question, won’t that rust?
Click to expand...
Some have claimed flash rust before but I've never had it in the 40 + years I've been shooting muzzleloaders. Hot water near but not at the boiling point, plug the touch hole or nipple with a rag or toothpick, pour the water down the barrel and let it sit for about 30 seconds then pour off. Repeat till the water comes out clear then remove the plug and pour water in allowing it to drain out the touch hole or nipple. Some people remove the nipple for that stage. As the water is poured out it evaporates off the barrel too fast to rust. Swab it lightly with oil, rub a light coating of oil over the gun and you're done. Make sure to swab it with a dry rag to get any oil out of the barrel before loading it.
Oh and some people use a drop or two of Dawn dish detergent in their water. Drop an LED fishing light down the barrel to check for lead fouling any grooves then if you're strong and brave run a brass brush down the barrel.
 
kje54 said:
Some have claimed flash rust before but I've never had it in the 40 + years I've been shooting muzzleloaders. Hot water near but not at the boiling point, plug the touch hole or nipple with a rag or toothpick, pour the water down the barrel and let it sit for about 30 seconds then pour off. Repeat till the water comes out clear then remove the plug and pour water in allowing it to drain out the touch hole or nipple. Some people remove the nipple for that stage. As the water is poured out it evaporates off the barrel too fast to rust. Swab it lightly with oil, rub a light coating of oil over the gun and you're done. Make sure to swab it with a dry rag to get any oil out of the barrel before loading it.
Oh and some people use a drop or two of Dawn dish detergent in their water. Drop an LED fishing light down the barrel to check for lead fouling any grooves then if you're strong and brave run a brass brush down the barrel.
Click to expand...
Muzzle Loader and BP have been calling me for years!

I shot a very tuned Flint Lock at my ex. gun club. and it was “RAW” it felt like a shot of Expresso. Love the smell and smoke and very accurate too. Shot a bottle at 50 years
 
Mark_Mark said:
Muzzle Loader and BP have been calling me for years!

I shot a very tuned Flint Lock at my ex. gun club. and it was “RAW” it felt like a shot of Expresso. Love the smell and smoke and very accurate too. Shot a bottle at 50 years
Click to expand...
Well if you decide to get into it hopefully there is someone where you live that sells black powder (not substitutes) or else you're having to pay the hazmat fee along with shipping. Now you can use BP substitutes in percussion firearms but not flintlocks and stay away from the solid pellets. The biggest problem right now is percussion cap availability, it's sporadic at best in the big box stores though some local shops may carry them. Oh and watch out for price gouging on caps, it's rampant. If you're serious find a black powder club near you, they can be an invaluable resource.
Personally I'm a traditional muzzleloader, I find modern inlines to be monstrous aberrations....... But that's just me........ :)
 
kje54 said:
Some have claimed flash rust
Click to expand...
Flash* rusting will occur if you let the ultra-clean/warm barrel sit for any length of time after the hot soap & water treatment.
The solution ? (duuuuuuhhh.....) Run an oily patch down the bore while still warm.
Hot steels loooooves that treatment.



Note: such oxidation is a very uniform/super/ultra-thin film.... not rusting in the classical/pitting type rust.
 
kje54 said:
Well if you decide to get into it hopefully there is someone where you live that sells black powder (not substitutes) or else you're having to pay the hazmat fee along with shipping. Now you can use BP substitutes in percussion firearms but not flintlocks and stay away from the solid pellets. The biggest problem right now is percussion cap availability, it's sporadic at best in the big box stores though some local shops may carry them. Oh and watch out for price gouging on caps, it's rampant. If you're serious find a black powder club near you, they can be an invaluable resource.
Personally I'm a traditional muzzleloader, I find modern inlines to be monstrous aberrations....... But that's just me........ :)
Click to expand...
The retired old timers meet Tuesday thur Thursday and my Ex. Club. I’ll just rejoin the gun club. They Know everything there is to know about Black Powder! I’ve seen many supplies of BP in my local shop!

I just bought a replica Winchester 1873 in .357 mag. After I do a trigger job and venture into .357 then my next venture is BP!
 
The retired old timers meet Tuesday thur Thursday and my Ex. Club.

I think this sentence needed a review.........before you post it
 
Mark_Mark said:
The retired old timers meet Tuesday thur Thursday and my Ex. Club. I’ll just rejoin the gun club. They Know everything there is to know about Black Powder! I’ve seen many supplies of BP in my local shop!

I just bought a replica Winchester 1873 in .357 mag. After I do a trigger job and venture into .357 then my next venture is BP!
Click to expand...
Once you've gone black you'll never go back........ Or so they say. :)
(showing off my collection)

-t6YPDdFRlLR_RSngpxvOjqf9xgx2hLi0PHIW9UEhaxMQ2673RGJa3yvKabFQWmB835RFN8=w1126-h845-no?authuser=0.jpg

Z37EAlziztd_4TSGlkRrgMxGeugy286rKFRA6WlDLDXkhCntWAjwcJfXuNYTrfvm4vsZifE=w1126-h845-no?authuser=0.jpg

RjLJF6CvMa_JdlVsCSx1HUiRUojFu9VVQ3tnLfgX4yKxhE04KDGZ7BjlbssCAi5HcwX50Smg=w633-h844-no?authuser=0.jpg

I like all mine from flintlock up to my new firearms.
 
Mark_Mark said:
you just have those gun laying around for display? THATS COOL!

Yes, my grammar gets me in trouble !
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Not just for display, they go to the range from time to time. There's one 72 caliber (smoothbore), three 54 calibers, a 50 caliber and a 45 caliber then the two 44 caliber 1860 Colts. Buried in the corner almost behind the Pedersoli Kentucky is my 1874 Sharps.
I have one other 50 caliber flintlock that I'm slowly working on and a 20 gauge French Tulle kit that's been sitting unfinished for years that I'm selling. I also have the 54 caliber pistol listed and I'll be listing the Pedersoli Kentucky longrifle soon.
 
kje54 said:
Not just for display, they go to the range from time to time. There's one 72 caliber (smoothbore), three 54 calibers, a 50 caliber and a 45 caliber then the two 44 caliber 1860 Colts. Buried in the corner almost behind the Pedersoli Kentucky is my 1874 Sharps.
I have one other 50 caliber flintlock that I'm slowly working on and a 20 gauge French Tulle kit that's been sitting unfinished for years that I'm selling. I also have the 54 caliber pistol listed and I'll be listing the Pedersoli Kentucky longrifle soon.
Click to expand...
nice collection!
 
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