Advantages of DAO? And a question about USP's...

http://www.hkpro.com/usp.htm

USP has the following variants:
standard lever - top safety, middle off safety, down - decocker (2 variants for left and right side - var1, var2)
decock only lever - can not be put on safety (left, right side - var3, var4)
DAO - hammer can't be cocked - safety lever only (left, right side - var 5, var6)
DAO no lever (var 7)
DA/SA with no decocker function, but safety is there (var9,10)

Here's the deal - many people oppose the decocker function when combined with safety, because if you do carry cocked and locked you can push safety lever down too far and that will decock the hammer... This is why some people prefer var9 or var10 - when you have safety similar to 1911 - you can't use it to decock the hammer. In your case I would recommend var10 (if you do like the cocked and locked carry mode). With training cocked and locked can be good choice for carry.

Now if you don't plan to carry your gun cocked and locked, I would recommend to get variant with decock only function, which is var4. This way you can train to shoot your first shot double action.

If you favor DAO I'd get one without any lever at all - var7. Some people prefer DAO for ease of operation - same consistent trigger pull and no levers to worry about. Just pull the trigger.

It all comes down to what you favor...

DAO provides a consistant trigger pull - the first shot feels like all the rest. Something like a 1911 does the same thing, but with a shorter and usually much lighter pull. I prefer the 1911 type pull first, then a light double action type pull from Kahr, Glock or similar and the traditional DA/SA last even though I daily carry a decocker DA/SA CZ.

I think it comes down to personal preference... I really like having a consistant trigger pull from shot to shot which is not available in a traditional DA/SA pistol.

I'm not a fan of the USPs, but I really like the Kahr trigger system. If they make a version of the larger plastic TP9 in 45GAP and it holds at least 6+1 and it is reliable with the future available ( ) Ranger Ts or Golden Sabers, it will be my new carry gun.

With a DA/SA pistol without a decocker, after you fire the first shot, you either have to holster it with the trigger and the hammer back with safety on - which I generally wouldn't recommend - or manually lower the hammer by holding the hammer back, while pulling the trigger and lowering the hammer... while keeping the gun pointed in a safe direction, of course. On the range, that's no big deal if you are careful, but if I ever had to use my gun in a more serious situation, one of the last things I think I'd want to try would be to manually lower the hammer.

Dees, in DAO guns each trigger pull is generally much lighter than double action pull in a traditional DA/SA handgun.

DAO handguns usually use different type of trigger mechanism, different set of springs, or some combination of above to make trigger pull lighter.

In a traditional DA/SA handgun manufactures don't work that hard to make the first shot easier.

Now, you are right in the assumption that in DA/SA handgun the hammer gets cocked during recoil. In case you carry such a handgun without round in the chamber, you have to cycle the slide to put the first round in the chamber, and that also cocks the hammer for the first shot. So the only time when you actually have to use double action pull is when you have round in the chamber and the hammer was previously lowered (somewhat dangerous operation without the use of decocker - hammer may slip and the gun will fire).

In DAO handgun you can't cock the hammer, and if you rock the slide manually (or recoil does it for you) the hammer will not stay cocked. Such a hammer simply does not have means to stay in the cocked position.

There's one more autoloader type - Single Action, such as 1911 or Browning Hi Power. Those can't be fired from hammer down position, and the hammer has to be locked in the cocked position, or cocked before firing (either manually or by cycling the slide to put the first round in the chamber).

The problem with the DA/SA is that there is a great difference between the first shot and the subsequent shots which often means in use - miss, hit, hit ,hit. The LEM trigger is an improved [lighter and smother] DAO trigger, very nice.

there's also the da/sa philosophy espoused by cz - "single action with second strike capability." treat it like a single action till it fails to fire, then just pull the trigger again. easy first trigger pull, cause it's starting out cocked (and, when applicable, locked).

USP Variants

I love that HK offers many different variants in their USP pistol. A person can now adjust the platform to meet his or her needs without having to purchase a brand new gun. If you want to buy a Glock, it is a DAO gun. If you don't like DAO, you probably won't buy a Glock. If you want to buy a Beretta 92FS, it is a DA/SA gun. If you don't like DA/SA...I would love to own a Sig 220, but I really do not like DA/SA pistols. If Sig would offer different variants of their 220, I'd have one.

With the HK, I can purchase a variant that I like and I can even change my mind after I purchased it.

/Most/ DAO guns are actually not precisely double-action each time. Its more akin to the Glock Safe Action.

I am most familiar with my S&W 5946, but other systems I have examined seem similar. The slide, like on an SA or SA/DA pistol, cocks the hammer. However, it just cocks it partway. About 1/4 to 1/3rd of the total hammer stroke, usually.

This means the trigger pull can be quite clean and light, there is just some distance to be taken up. Why do you want this? Consistency shot to shot, and no safety levers of any sort are needed. I have cocked-and-locked SA pistols also, but find the transition to this to be no problem at all. You should pull the trigger like a revolver, wrapped around a bit more than the finger tip pressure of an SA pistol, but that's all.

Glocks, incidentally (and P7s in cocked mode, and probably other guns) are also ever so slightly "DA." The striker moves a bit to the rear before it it released.

I don't like DA/SA guns. I would shoot a DAO. The most important shot is your first shot, but it is also the most difficult one and the one that you're going to practice the least unless you decock after each shot. Double-taps are a common defensive shooting technique where each attacker gets two hits because one usually doesn't take him out of the fight. Getting a good, quick rhythm with two different trigger pulls is not easy.

I also don't care for DA/SA pistols. I prefer a consistent trigger pull. Either SA or DA, but not a changing trigger pull. If someone trains with them and that's what they use, it doesn't matter, it's just not my thing.

Okay, my hand is up for DA/SA. I much prefer it and that's not to bash others here, but quite frankly, I believe in training and am used to it. I use a CZ-75 and am very competent with it. I also know how to use a safety (rabbit and duck hunting requires the use of one).

Ash

I like DAO as well, but DA/SA sure hasn't hurt Ernie Langdon's scores...

I actually prefer a DAO system for carry. My current carry weapon is my FN Forty-Nine. My gun uses a DAO-type system that FN calls a repeatable secure striker. All the firing pieces are at rest until you begin the squeeze. The pistol then cocks (per se) then unlocks and then fires. As soon as the trigger is released, the pistol is put on safe.
There are no safeties to bother with, no fiddling with unecesary things when precious seconds count. DAO simply means draw and fire.
The heavier, long trigger pulls are only a problem for those who are not used to firing this type of weapon rapidly. Training and practice works that out in a big hurry.

Ok, I can take the flames. The only reason to shoot a DAO is because you can't, or won't, practice with a SA pistol so that you learn to draw, unsafe and fire. I've found that SA's usually have better trigger pulls, and can usually be shot more accurately than DAO's.

Now lot's of people say you just have to practice to get used to a DAO and then you can shoot it just as fast and accurately as a SA pistol. I guess that's why the tactical games like IDPA et al had to make a special class for the DAO's to shoot in. The facts are that the top shooters can shoot anything well, and could out shoot you and me with a SW99 with a bent slide and us using the finest 1911 built, but they all use SA pistols when they want to win. Every beginner that I have taught also shoots SA pistols more accurately than the DAO pistols they try (mostly Glocks and Walther/S&W). Some wind up going with a DAO anyway simply because you just pull and it goes bang, no thinking needed.

I do have one mouse gun that is a traditional DA/SA, a Bersa .380. I think it's a wonderful pocket pistol, but it's the backup to a Hi Power or other SA pistol carried cocked and locked.

My issued weapon is a HK USP .40 variant 7 with 14 lb. trigger pull.
I love it and after much practice I can group quite well up to 35 yards.

If you are purchasing the gun get a lighter trigger than 14 lbs. that is what took along time to adapt to after years of Glock and 1911's.

As far as HK goes the weapon has functioned flawlessly for the two years I have carried it. Dirty, clean, oily it always goes bang.

You're less likely to have a ND/AD when in DA/DAO.