Article: Are there really this many Ghost Guns?

kwguy said:

Yes there would. Making your own firearm has always been legal, since the birth of the country.

Click to expand...

We need to make a distinction between do-it-yourself guns and "ghost guns." "Ghost guns" is a term cooked up by the antigunners to describe guns that have evaded a paper trail. Evading a paper trail wouldn't be a thing if that paper trail wasn't onerous, or wasn't perceived as about to become onerous.

And evading a paper trail is something that mostly concerns otherwise law-abiding people. Professional criminals don't care, because they can just ditch incriminating guns. Just drop them into the nearest lake where they will never be found.

Any gun that has been stolen, or that has been sold during a legal, private sale, is technically
a “ghost gun”, because there is no longer a “paper trail”. Anti’s are going after the “80 percent” stuff because it sounds scary, and to the ignorant masses, making your own firearm with no serial number sounds crazy to them, so it must be bad. Then, when THAT doesn’t work, the anti’s will redefine the narrative yet again, and make the ability to delete the “paper trail” of serialized guns more difficult, hence, registration, etc etc... until they finally get what they want.

And yet none of this will address the 800 pound gorilla in the room, which is, none of this matters to criminals, and they will steal, make, buy guns all they want, then then throw them into the lake to get rid of it. With the serial number etched into it.

But the anti’s do not care about crime, they want guns out of the hands of citizens, and they are using “crime” and “safety” as excuses to do so. Those that are willing to give up the tools of freedom and defense in order to reduce crime, whether perceived or real, are simply the useful idiots of those seeking to take away our 2A right.

kwguy said:

....
And yet none of this will address the 800 pound gorilla in the room, which is, none of this matters to criminals,
....
But the anti’s do not care about crime, they want guns out of the hands of citizens,

Click to expand...

Ditto ... and double ditto.

No such thing as ghosts.

To put 130 odd Ghost Guns in New York City in proportion

* Friend or family of a state prison inmate who is a Firearms Using Offender are often criminals themselves or aid, abet or associate with a criminal.

The 2016 survey shows a change in categories from the Bureau of Justice Statistic, Firearms Use by Offenders from for 1991, 1997, 2004

2016 Source and method to obtain firearm by State prisoners who carried or used a gun

9.7% Retail Purchase or trade
7.2 - Gun shop/store
1.5 - Pawn shop
0.4 - Flea market
0.8 - Gun show

26.0% Obtained from individual
7.9 - Purchased/traded
7.0 - Rented/borrowed
11.2 - Gift/purchased for

43.2% Off the street/underground
6.6% Theft
1.5 - From burglary
0.2 - From retail source
1.8 - From family/friend
3.3 - Unspecified theft
17.1% Other source
6.7 - Found at crime location
4.7 - Brought by someone else
5.6 - Other
2.6% Multiple sources

2016 Note: Prisoners were asked to report all sources and methods of obtaining any firearm they possessed during the offense, so details may not sum

Just sad brainwashed automatons following their narrative.

None of this stops me from coldcocking the guy in the big hat, and searching him for a pistol.

None of their laws have been effective on gun crime. Or any crime.

or vorpal blades... At any rate -none of that is going to slow down skilled propagandists (which those on the left seem to have a number of...). In short we ought to make mandatory some kind of education for our young'uns (just before college if possible) on how to be very skeptical about anything they see, hear or read from out news media these days...

Quick someone add that quote from Mark Twain about the newspapers of his time...

My take away from all this is, it's a numbers game.

If say, 70% of the shooting population had owned or do own a so-called ''ghost gun'' that would spear their numbers. Example, the news report would read '' There are 2,000,000 self made guns being lawfully used in America, however, we have confiscated from crime scenes right at 200 of these ghost guns.''

NO
LEG
TO...
Stand on.

OK I git it, they would hop a lot (until tired LoL). In this scenario, I would prefer to watch the various techniques of HOPPING.

SO THE SIMPLE SOLUTION IS....buy/build/shoot !

kwguy said:

Then, when THAT doesn’t work, the anti’s will redefine the narrative yet again, and make the ability to delete the “paper trail” of serialized guns more difficult, hence, registration, etc etc... until they finally get what they want.

Click to expand...

Which would have the opposite of the antigunners' desired effect -- driving guns even further underground. Learn from history -- whenever we have credible threats of gun bans, there are spikes in gun sales. And in countries with draconian gun laws, but a strong pre-existing gun culture, the draconian laws are simply ignored. This leads to contempt for laws in general. Look at what happened with alcohol Prohibition.

RedlegRick said:

"...Or, you could simply buy a block of PA6.6-GF30 and carve out the part you want. It's fairly cheap on the interwebs. I'll leave the possibilities to your imaginations..."
Well, guess it's time to dust off my whittling knives.

Back in the nineties, I saw plans online for making an AR lower out of wood, and there's been plans for STEN clones out there since the 70's. The really hard part is going to be magazines, but I imagine any tinknocker worth his salt could cobble something up.

Click to expand...

It's a bit silly in many ways. People can and will make things they feel are needed. Working guns are not terribly challenging for a metal working shop to make. If anything a hobbiest could probably pull off serviceable smoothbore grease guns and silencers with components and tools available at most big box hardware stores. It's just we have a stable and happy society where folks don't feel a need for such things.

Carl N. Brown said:

The 2016 survey shows a change in categories from the Bureau of Justice Statistic, Firearms Use by Offenders from for 1991, 1997, 2004

2016 Source and method to obtain firearm by State prisoners who carried or used a gun

Click to expand...

When did the P80 kits first hit the market?
I would assume the number is far greater than what is reported.... That number just reflects the ones that were caught.

The "80% kits" seem purpose built for the criminal world.

I had no interest in 80% receivers or AR pistols with braces or blades until the ATF started talking about banning them. Now I'm considering both just because........ Not for sale but for my personal use.

For most of my life I had no need for any type of AR style firearm. I did have several firearms that would shoot 5.56X45 though. Since the pressure has been turned up on AR platform firearms in the recent past I have invested in some for personal use. Even built some just to say I could actually do it. Probably would have not bothered without all the sky screaming of those that want to ban such tools.

If they are "ghosts" who can see them and determine how many there are??

I've picked up a number of items over the years that could be classified as "ghost guns". as they were never given a serial number, were given a serial number that was repeated each production year or cycle, were produced by companies or nations that no longer exist and used inconsistent numbering systems and left no records, were built from kits that included no numbered parts, or are in such poor condition that their numbers are no longer readable.

I see no reason to seek out any additional "ghost guns" unless they happen to be collectible and interesting in themselves.

I am concerned that the powers that be may legislate against these guns and then expand the definition of these items... .

rust collector said:

We handed organized criminals a huge revenue stream with prohibition of booze, prohibition of gambling, prohibition of sex workers and the war on drugs. We have eventually re-legitimized when at long last we realized the futility and figured out a workable taxation process. What will it take for us to figure these things out and not squander public resources that are needed elsewhere?

Meanwhile, OP posts editorial material from a checkout aisle birdcage carpet and questions its sources?

Click to expand...

The media war on "ghost guns" is ramping up and stories like this will appear in the news all around the country to push the narrative. Over the last few years there have been several references to ghost guns in detective shows as well to demonize these firearms

The whole “ghost gun, 3D printed gun “ hysteria are amusing rants from those who have never worked with their hands. Much of modern guns trace their design to the 19th century. They can be manufactured with a lathe and a mill.
My Father was a machinist in the 1950’s. IMHO if he desired he could turn out a functional firearm in a matter of hours.
Are we going to ban lathes, mills, grinders? for 18 century arms, forges, files, taps and dies?
A 3D printer NO thanks, I’ll take a lathe.

Ghost guns. The new buzz word of gun control lunacy.

Hundreds? In NYC? Doesn't seem like a high number to me.

One of my Dad's buddies, a CIA-type, once showed me his collection of Filipino "brake-shop" guns, all of which were made from common materials by hand.
Some were quite ingenious and a few had faked-up serial numbers and other markings to make them look more legitimate.
sort of the Filipino equivalent of "ghost guns"... .

They are counting any gun with no or removed serial numbers as a casper gun .It is just more nonsense from them, to stop/deprive us of
another right !

Please stop using the gungrabber meme "ghost gun" term. It's depressing to see the firearms community adopting enemy verbiage. It's nothing but "home built firearms", ostensibly for personal use. A tradition literally as old as America itself.

BlueHeelerFl said:

The media war on "ghost guns" is ramping up and stories like this will appear in the news all around the country to push the narrative. Over the last few years there have been several references to ghost guns in detective shows as well to demonize these firearms

Click to expand...

Yep, and simply reasoning says criminals watch tv to and will start seeking out these “ghost guns”

Let's say you engrave a serial number on your "80%" build. Unless the gun somehow goes through an FFL, it's just as untraceable as if the serial number wasn't there. But (providing state law allows it), it could be sold FTF without any red flags being raised that it was a "ghost gun."

Engraving the name and address of the maker would obviously be more problematic. But there is nothing that says that the name and address on such a home-built gun has to be your name and address.

Since no markings are required, that implies that fictitious markings would be OK. Although, if you engrave "Colt" as the maker, Colt could sue you for trademark violation, provided that Colt could find you. You would need to be a bit more creative.

(This is mere speculation, and it clearly doesn't apply to NFA weapons.)

I would like to focus and have it reported on how many Poly 80 guns are turning up in NYC crimes. Does that breakdown exist. A Federal officer friend of mine says that they see a good number of time being made into usable guns in California and seen in crimes. Thus, that subset of purchase and usage is to avoid NICS. What is the case in NYC?

That seems a different criminal market path as compared to theft or strawman sales of serialized guns that at some time went through NICS if the gun was produced after that law was in effect.