Ruger SR1911 & Unsupported Chamber
- Thread starter jski
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Riomouse911
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It sure looks like it is supported. Here is one of the 4.25” commander barrels in .45 ACP:
Compared to a Springfield Loaded 5” also in .45 ACP:
Stay safe.
Compared to a Springfield Loaded 5” also in .45 ACP:
Stay safe.
The Ruger and Springfield chambers look pretty much identical.
Ok, I’ll go for supported.
JTQ
Member
In reference to 1911's, this is usually a question as to whether the pistol has a ramped barrel (less common) or a standard barrel and the feed ramp on the frame.
The pictured barrels above, in post #2, are standard un-ramped 1911 barrels and have all the chamber support needed for .45 Auto.
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JTQ
Member
In these two pictures in post #3, the left barrel is a standard 1911 style barrel. The picture on the right is a ramped barrel. Ramped barrels are often helpful for rounds such as the pictured .38 Super.
A typical .45 Auto 1911 will not come with a ramped barrel, as many believe ramped barrels don't feed quite as reliably with .45 Auto as will an un-ramped barrel. There is really no need (well, other than maybe an aluminum frame) for a ramped barrel with a .45 Auto 1911.
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Skylerbone
Member
The benefit of a fully supported chamber is safety when shooting high pressure rounds like .38 Super and 10mm
sabbfan
Member
Google “glock bulge” or “glock smile” and you’ll find a ton of info on what can happen to brass with unsupported chambers and higher pressure rounds. Basically puts a little bulge or “smile” on the brass where the chamber is unsupported
The Glockodile
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Anectdotal hearsay - many handloaders stop counting the number of times brass has been reloaded, when it comes to .45 ACP, and just stop using them when the lips crack.
We tend to be a little more weary with .40 S&W and 10mm - unless they were deliberately loaded as powder puff “fun” plinkers.
JTQ
Member
Don't forget "kabooms".
Which I think may have been the source for the OP's question.
Conversely, in the 100+ year history of the .45 Auto 1911, this just isn't an issue even with the "unsupported chamber" of a non-ramped 1911 .45 Auto barrel.
tark
Member
Supported chamber in 1911 speak means a ramped barrel, like JTQ said. When I started working for Les back in the early 90s they were all the rage with the IPSC guys, because they were loading 9X21s and Supers to insane pressures to make Major. Look at the barrels in post #3. The barrels are upside down, but notice the bottom of the chamber on the left barrel has been radiused so as to act as a ramp for helping the nose of the bullet enter the chamber. You can see how much exposed brass there is. The ramp on the supported chamber barrel does that job. You can see how much more "support" for the case that ramp gives. When you're loading rounds to near proof levels you need that support. I've never seen a 1911 in 9X23 Winchester, but I would lay fair wager that they are all supported chamber guns.
If you are putting a ramped barrel on a standard frame that had a regular barrel you should know that some machining operations will be needed. Also, once the conversion is done, that frame will be using a ramped barrel for the rest of its life. You can't go back! The other advantage to a ramped barrel is on an aluminum framed gun. It saves a lot of wear and tear on the frame. Les wouldn't make an alloy framed gun without a ramped barrel.
When I was there and I would say about 10-15% of our guns had ramped barrels. Those were almost always 9s and Supers.
If you are putting a ramped barrel on a standard frame that had a regular barrel you should know that some machining operations will be needed. Also, once the conversion is done, that frame will be using a ramped barrel for the rest of its life. You can't go back! The other advantage to a ramped barrel is on an aluminum framed gun. It saves a lot of wear and tear on the frame. Les wouldn't make an alloy framed gun without a ramped barrel.
When I was there and I would say about 10-15% of our guns had ramped barrels. Those were almost always 9s and Supers.
Jim Watson
Member
You would lose.
First home of the 9x23 Winchester was a Colt with plain barrel.
Winchester brass is of rifle temper for that gun.
Pre-Colt/Winchester 9x23 CP Elite cases are quite soft and I would want all the support I could get.
Rock185
Member
I've not used .45 Super, but the barrels in the photos appear adequately supported, In loading .45 ACP, to what would now probably be considered +P; never an issue in standard unramped .45 ACP barrels. A few years ago, I was one of the department armorers. The ramped .45 ACP Glock barrels I saw were throated so much from the factory, that I wondered how they could be safe. Much more unsupported brass hanging out over the feed ramp than any factory 1911 I encountered. Coincidentally, during training one night, one of the guy's new Glock 21s KA-BOOMED.
With the higher pressure cartridges, e.g., 9mm, .38 Super/Super Comp/9X23, 10mm, etc., I much prefer the integrally ramped barrels that provide the best case head support. FWIW, my Colt Delta 10MM, had a scary amount of unsupported brass hanging out over the barrel throat. Never had a case head actually blow, but still had the factory barrel replaced with a ramped type....
With the higher pressure cartridges, e.g., 9mm, .38 Super/Super Comp/9X23, 10mm, etc., I much prefer the integrally ramped barrels that provide the best case head support. FWIW, my Colt Delta 10MM, had a scary amount of unsupported brass hanging out over the barrel throat. Never had a case head actually blow, but still had the factory barrel replaced with a ramped type....
fxvr5
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You don't need a ramped (fully supported) barrel for 38 Super. Colt's barrels are not ramped.
If a 'high pressure' round requires a ramped barrel, then, for example, everything 9mm would require them, too.
Skylerbone
Member
Nowhere did I claim the need, only the benefit it provides and the reason in response to a question asked.
fxvr5
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Then the benefit of safety would apply to all cartridges, i.e. low pressure, and not just high pressure.
Skylerbone
Member
As is obvious, if you care to argue for naught.
Quite simply, some calibers warrant a ramped barrel, lower pressure ones do not. Nothing wrong with having one for reliable feed either way.
JTQ
Member
As tark mentioned, you'll need to have the frame feed ramp of your Ruger machined out to allow you to use a ramped barrel. This is not a simple barrel swap procedure.
JTQ
Member
For the OP, perhaps you couldn't tell the difference between the un-ramped and ramped barrels in your picture above, here are pictures from Wilson Combat.
Un-ramped (standard 1911 .45 Auto barrel, and what you probably have in your Ruger) https://shopwilsoncombat.com/BARREL-DROP-IN-45-ACP-GOVERNMENT-5-STAINLESS/productinfo/33D/
Ramped https://shopwilsoncombat.com/BARREL-MATCH-GRADE-10MM-GOVERNMENT-5-STAINLESS/productinfo/33DTR-10/
Note the ramp under the chamber mouth on the ramped barrel. To use that barrel you need to remove the corresponding frame ramp to make room for the barrel.
Un-ramped (standard 1911 .45 Auto barrel, and what you probably have in your Ruger) https://shopwilsoncombat.com/BARREL-DROP-IN-45-ACP-GOVERNMENT-5-STAINLESS/productinfo/33D/
Ramped https://shopwilsoncombat.com/BARREL-MATCH-GRADE-10MM-GOVERNMENT-5-STAINLESS/productinfo/33DTR-10/
Note the ramp under the chamber mouth on the ramped barrel. To use that barrel you need to remove the corresponding frame ramp to make room for the barrel.
JTQ
Member
Provided the ramp barrel improves feed reliability.
Skylerbone
Member
Here’s a picture of one of mine with standard feed ramp. Note the ramp is integral to the frame. What some people think of as the feed ramp on the barrel is actually the throat. This one is widened and polished.
Skylerbone
Member
Not a given with either a ramped or traditional set up but yes. All of my 1911s are chambered for .45 ACP and have traditional feed ramps, though all have been throated and polished by me with the exception of the one above which was rebarreled by a smith who polished the new barrel. Photo above is before the swap.
With that work, I’ve had zero reliability issues. No high pressure rounds, no feed problems, so no ramped barrels for me (yet).
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Skylerbone
Member
Added a few more pictures for reference; I shot this same pistol Monday and Tuesday this week so I disassembled for cleaning just now.
Bullet path on the barrel throat.
Relationship between barrel and feed ramp. Note the gap which is integral to the design and necessary for reliable feed.
This is a hand-fitted barrel done by a former Baer employee now working at Cabot. After thousands of rounds there is no sign of damage to the lugs.
Bullet path on the barrel throat.
Relationship between barrel and feed ramp. Note the gap which is integral to the design and necessary for reliable feed.
This is a hand-fitted barrel done by a former Baer employee now working at Cabot. After thousands of rounds there is no sign of damage to the lugs.
tark
Member
You do if you're loading them to 50,000PSI or more, like the IPSC guys were. Supers are loaded to 36,500 PSI. 9s run at 35,000 and 38,500 respectively for standard and +P loads. Those are SAAMI specs. The case thickness near the base on those rounds was not designed to handle proof load pressures. Proof rounds use steel cases or beefed up brass cases.
You're right Jim, I just did. I know little about the 9X23 Winchester other than it doesn't do anything a 9X25 Mauser won't do, at far lower pressure. Well, almost. 128 Gr. @ 1360 for the Mauser, 125 @ 1450 for the Win. Load the Mauser round to 55,000 PSI and it would exceed the 9X23.
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