.357 load help...

SP should be fine. The slow mag powders like H110/W296 do require a mag primer. I have not used that powder so I can't comment on its use. HP38 is a ball powder and should meter fine in your dispenser.

I would use the HP-38 and your SP primers.

In my humble experience, I would find the load that works in a smaller quantity first, once you achieve that, then load your 500.....

I say this because..............wellllll................


Good luck n have fun.......!

Just load either to .38 special load data and use SPP. They will work just fine.

So, one can pretty much follow any .38 spl. Data and load it into .357 brass?

Shivahasagun said:

So, one can pretty much follow any .38 spl. Data and load it into .357 brass?

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According to Phillip Sharpe (The Complete Guide to Handloading, 1937), and he helped develop the .357 Magnum.

Clays should be fine, it doesn't meter well for me though. I dip and trickle up when I use it. There are better powders for the job but there are way worse too. I like to use clays for 45 colt , I like how many cartridges I can make with a pound but it's slow going getting accurate charge weights. Maybe someone has a better method for dropping charges but in all fairness trailboss doesn't meter well at all in my set up either so I dip it too (I don't bother trickling trailboss).

Here is Hodgdon's on line reloading site. They have loads for both W231 and Clays for both 357 Magnum and 38 Special down in the range you are looking for. The 357 Magnum data shows using a magnum primer but for Clays and W231, a standard primer could be substituted.

https://www.hodgdonreloading.com/?_ga=2.32989758.1868469905.1637858942-2956630.1637858942

You will notice, the top load for 38 Special is about the starting load for 357 Magnum using a 158 grain bullet.

Bill M. said:

So I guess my question is, stick with the Clays or give up one of my small quantities of the other powders?

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I’m a fan of Clays for those lighter target loads. And, I’m with you, Clays doesn’t seem to meter well with rotary style meters, but works well with shuttle style meters like shotgun or Dillons. My LNL, with a baffle, and a bit of vibration seemed to be able to hold within about three tenths IIR. The SDs echoed the metering issue but the results on paper were good. I’d stick with the Clays. Good luck.

Bill M. said:

Thanks for the replies. I wanted to try the Clays since I almost always have it anyway. So I loaded up 100 at 4.2 grains. Enough to give them a good try in my 2 guns. Upper middle of the Hodgdon data. I am not going to trickle up practice loads. It will have to shoot or not from dropped charges. Will probably get to shoot Monday to try them. I am going to relocate for 4 months in Jan and will have to take all the ammo I need with me. Acme had bullets in stock so I ordered a thousand and I have the 1000 primers I paid a small fortune for a couple of months ago. I can not find any suitable powder locally and little on line and would not want to pay the hazmat fee for 1 bottle. I am sorta saving my HP38 for jacketed bullets. If I am going to shoot this winter and spring just waiting things out for supply is not an option. I need to load the shells about around now.

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If your shooting 357 mag use the hp38 and get something slower for the jacketed.

Shivahasagun said:

So, one can pretty much follow any .38 spl. Data and load it into .357 brass?

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If you use 38+P data in 357 cases it pretty much equals 38 special loads in 38 cases.
I used to start at max 38 data and work up to 357 starting loads looking for a pop gun load.
Be sure each bullet makes a hole in paper before firing the next shot.
Universal is great for 38 +p to medium 357 loads.
I've never used hp38 but a lot of folks love it.

AJC1 said:

If your shooting 357 mag use the hp38 and get something slower for the jacketed.

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His universal makes a solid 357 powder. I only use h110 now. But I used a lot of universal and enjoyed the power level without horrendous blast from shorter barrels.

Bfh_auto said:

If you use 38+P data in 357 cases it pretty much equals 38 special loads in 38 cases.
I used to start at max 38 data and work up to 357 starting loads looking for a pop gun load.
Be sure each bullet makes a hole in paper before firing the next shot.
Universal is great for 38 +p to medium 357 loads.
I've never used hp38 but a lot of folks love it.

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Thanks.

I was thinking if I did this id at least pick a powder quantity in the middle of book recommendation.

If I were in your shoes, I would load up Universal first, starting at 5.0 up to 6.0 grains and pick whichever shoots best. My second option would be the HP-38/W231, with the same strategy. When that runs out, I guess you could try the Clays, but my bet is you would look hard to find some Universal, W-231/HP-38, Unique, Power Pistol or Herco after using Clays for a while.

Shivahasagun said:

Thanks.

I was thinking if I did this id at least pick a powder quantity in the middle of book recommendation.

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I do this for initial shooting of the gun. After about 50 rounds. I do a load work up. Lately I have my accuracy/hunting loads and run with them.

Just wondering how much variance your getting with Clays? Been a long time since I loaded it in shotgun...it tends to be unavailable locally with any regularity...but I remember it being rather fluffy. Throwing Unique through a cheapo Lee measure, I'm getting less than .1 grain maximum variance with poor metering Unique in the 6-7 gr range for mid-power loads and heavier in the .41 and rifle cast. HS-6 and HP-38 are noticeably tighter, but it doesn't really show up in the groups. If you're in good enough for government work territory, use the Clays as you have a lot of it. You may never notice the variance on targets just as with your shotgun loads. I'm considering a similar switch to Red Dot for my casual shooting .38 loads for similar reason.

Give the Clays a fair chance and there is a very good probability it will shoot fine even with what you consider poor metering.

I use the RCBS measure with Promo (a very similar flake) and find that loads shoot good down to somewhere between 3.0 and 3.5 grs. Yes there are velocity variations (more from powder position than from charge variations), but they still shoot good.

Your Titegroup should also work well. For about a year when I was unable to re-supply my Promo (Obama powder run days), I found a jug of Titegroup and used it for a replacement. I was able to work up satisfactory replacements for all of my Promo loads and have stocked Titegroup ever since.

After I was able to get Promo again, I ended up sticking with Titegroup for anything I wanted to shoot that would use less than around 3.5 grs of Promo. You will use a little more powder with Titegroup, but the metering is just so much better (especially in very small charges).

I load between 600 and 1000 rounds a month for target shooting with my son. Most are 327, 38 SP, 357 Mag and 357 Max with Promo or Titegroup.

I ran Quickload for Clays and Titegroup to estimate charge needed for 900 fps. You did not specify barrel length so I ran a number of choices. Quickload uses muzzle to breech for length and I ran the numbers for 950 fps to account for an estimated 50 fps loss from the cylinder gap. This is for a 158 gr cast with a 0.420" bullet seating depth.

For 4.2" muzzle to breech, 950 fps is predicted from 4.6 gr Clays **
For 4.7" muzzle to breech, 950 fps is predicted from 4.4 gr Clays.
For 5.7" muzzle to breech, 950 fps is predicted from 4.1 gr Clays.
For 7.7" muzzle to breech, 950 fps is predicted from 3.8 gr Clays.

** Max listed charge from Hodgdon

For 3.7" muzzle to breech, 950 fps is predicted from 5.4 gr Titegroup. ***
For 4.2" muzzle to breech, 950 fps is predicted from 5.1 gr Titegroup. ***
For 4.7" muzzle to breech, 950 fps is predicted from 4.9 gr Titegroup.
For 5.7" muzzle to breech, 950 fps is predicted from 4.6 gr Titegroup.
For 7.7" muzzle to breech, 950 fps is predicted from 4.1 gr Titegroup.

*** Should be ok as Hodgdon allows up to 6.1 for a jacketed 158

Bill M. said:

How much variance with the Clays? Trying to throw 4.2. Getting 4.1-4.3. Only have single digit scale and I do not know the rounding.

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You’re golden. Really, a +/- .1grain is perfectly acceptable given you’re not treading on a max charge. It might be even a bit more variance like you said given the rounding but it’s still not +- .5. Your V may vary a bit more but groups are acceptable, for me.
Titegroup was mentioned above, it’s widely used in the competitive crowd and meters great which is good because that’s one powder that gets out of control fast at the top end. But it’s a good powder as well, and produces tight groups. Good luck.

FWIW; my Lyman 49th has Clays data for both 38 Special and 357 Magnum...

Bill M. said:

I have Federal SP primers. I want to load 158 grain HiTek coated bullets at about 900 fps. (Bayou Bullets and Acme Bullets). I would like to load 500 or so rounds. I generally load Trail Boss but I am out and there is no more to be had apparently. I have a bottle to Tightgroup and partial bottles of Universal and HP38. I have an essentially unlimited quantity of Clays since I keep that in 8 lb jugs for my shotgun loading. I tried loading some 125 grain loads with the Clays. I cannot get it to drop accurately in the 4 to 5 grain charges required. RCBS powder measure with pistol metering chamber. So I guess my question is, stick with the Clays or give up one of my small quantities of the other powders? Maybe the question is how do other people like Clays for .357? And will the SP primers work well for Clays. (Hodgdon data is for Magnum primers}

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Use the lee dippers. It's all I use..

savagelover said:

Use the lee dippers. It's all I use..

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I use them too. For tiny drops or to close to max loads.

Lee dipper, powder trickler if I need a little more, Lee powder-through die with Lee funnel on top.