Smith &Wesson 27-9

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Elkins45

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A local pawn shop has a minty 27-9 in their case for $700. Past experience leads me to believe he would let it go for $650. It’s a post lock gun so purists would turn their nose up at it, and I really don’t need another 357 revolver, but logic has little to do with such things. It’s a 4” with laminated magna-style grips that appear to be rosewood. A little bluing wear on the ejector rod appears to be the only sign of use.

Decisions, decisions…
 
It is a heavy revolver. I has a relatively short barrel for a small magnum round. What does it do that a L frame could do? If I'm carrying a N frame is would be a 40/44/45.
 
Elkins45,

You asked the same question on
the Smith & Wesson Forum two
days ago and today you've stated
that it's probably been sold.
 
Here in metro Detroit a pre-lock 27 in the condition you describe goes for $1500 all day long. Recently saw a 27 with the lock at an LGS priced at $1100. It sold almost as soon as it came in the door.
 
Elkins45,

You asked the same question on
the Smith & Wesson Forum two
days ago and today you've stated
that it's probably been sold.
No, I didn’t. I stated I hadn’t been back to see if it’s still there. I would be surprised if it has sold.

If you’re going to call me out for what I post on another forum at least do me the courtesy of being accurate.
 
What does the -9 stand for?

Howdy

In engineering terms, when a change is made to a product, the engineering drawing goes into a new Revision. Once Smith and Wesson went to a model numbering system in 1957, subsequent changes to each model were given a new 'dash number'. This was stamped on the frame under the cylinder yoke. This frame is marked MOD 10-5, which means it is a Model 10, 5th revision.

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This is a Model 27, no dash, which means no revisions had been done to it yet. It shipped in 1959.

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Nice revolvers! Mine (S&W) says 642-2. I don't know but maybe the -2 is for the stupid lock?

Howdy Again

According to the Standard Catalog of Smith and Wesson, the Model 642 (38 Centennial Airweight Stainless) was introduced in 1990. The 642-1 was for the reintroduction of a J Magnum frame in 1996. In 2002 the 642-2 was introduced with the internal key lock system. The SCSW says nothing about a 'stupid' lock.
 
Howdy Again

According to the Standard Catalog of Smith and Wesson, the Model 642 (38 Centennial Airweight Stainless) was introduced in 1990. The 642-1 was for the reintroduction of a J Magnum frame in 1996. In 2002 the 642-2 was introduced with the internal key lock system. The SCSW says nothing about a 'stupid' lock.

No, S&W seems to like the locks:
S&W was against the wall and the Clinton White House offered a deal that looked like a way out. But S&W would have to “compromise”, and that involved, among some other ridiculous demands, pledging to include an internal lock in all of their new guns. The agreement was inked in March 2000, and and that’s how the internal revolver lock was born. Though today’s political situation is much different than it was 14 years ago [21 years now], the S&W revolver locks remain. Similar locking devices have shown up on a few S&W semi-auto pistols and long guns, but almost every new revolver from the company includes the infamous internal lock.
https://www.luckygunner.com/lounge/smith-and-wesson-internal-lock/
 
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@aaaaa
Here ya go: https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1020911222
Sell the one you’ve got and buy this one. Problem solved. :thumbup:

Regarding the model 27:
Last March I was in a Sportsman’s Warehouse here in SoCal and they had a new 4” model 27 for sale a little below the MSRP at $1025. My wife wasn’t real thrilled with the price and the only reason she was there is she had to drive me as my left arm was in a sling from surgery.
Anyway, I figured at a grand it would be there a little while. The next day my wife said to give them a call and see if they would hold it until we could get there in the afternoon and she would drive me over. Well, it was gone. :confused:
I haven’t found a new one since, but I satiated my desire for a stout .357 Magnum by finally buying my first Ruger DA, a GP100. Though I will own a 27 one day as it is one of my Grail Guns.
The only 27s I have seen for sale online have had a “SOLD” in place of where the price should be.

I said all this to say; if you really want a 27 you may want to grab that one because they aren’t exactly growing on trees at reasonable prices.
 
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I would be all over that Model 27. I would easily even pay the $700 asking in a heartbeat. Here is my 27-2 and I also have a Pre Model 27 but not as early as the registered magnum.

Model%2027%202%20Six%20Inch.png
Another set of grips are in the top of the case. Heck for $700 I would buy it in a heartbeat if in the condition you describe.

Ron
 
My LGS has one new for $879 or at least they did last week. Been there for a while. I just assumed that most people who would enjoy an N frame would either want a larger caliber or just not appreciate it for what it is. Nice gun though, If it fits you and you like it the price seems decent.
 
It is a heavy revolver. I has a relatively short barrel for a small magnum round. What does it do that a L frame could do? If I'm carrying a N frame is would be a 40/44/45.

It's overbuilt for the cartridge which means it will outlast an L frame as long as you shoot sane loads with it.
 
It's overbuilt for the cartridge which means it will outlast an L frame as long as you shoot sane loads with it.
From the S&W website:

"Smith & Wesson® small “J-Frame” revolvers have had our customers’ back since 1950. Designed to fire a full power round, it’s no surprise it has become the most popular, small-frame, defense revolver on the market."

"Smith & Wesson® medium “K-Frame” and large “L-Frame” revolvers are built to suit the demands of the most serious fi rearms enthusiast.
The “L-Frame” is built for continuous Magnum® usage.
The “K-Frame” is built for the 38 S&W Special cartridge and has been a favorite of military and police as well as target shooters and enthusiasts."

Sounds like the L frame is the most robust of the three.
 
Yes, the L frame is slightly larger than a K frame, so the cylinder is slightly larger.

There is a heck of a lot more to it than what you have quoted on the S&W website.

Let's go through a little bit of history.

Going back to 1896, the first revolver Smith and Wesson made with a swing out style cylinder was chambered for the 32 S&W Long cartridge. It was called the 32 Hand Ejector, 1st Model. Hand Ejector refers to the fact that unlike with the older Top Break revolvers, which automatically ejected empty cartridges when opened, with the new revolvers empties were not ejected automatically. Instead empties had to be ejected 'by hand' by pushing in the ejector rod after the cylinder was opened.

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This revolver was a six shot revolver. It was the perfect size for a six shot 32 caliber revolver. It was built on what came to be known as the I frame.

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In 1899 Smith and Wesson developed the 38 Special cartridge, and a new revolver was introduced to chamber the 38 Special. The new revolver was larger than the I frame, it was the perfect size for a six shot 38 caliber revolver. The new revolver was called the 38 Military and Police, or the Model of 1899 Army-Navy revolver. The frame it was built on became known as the K frame.

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In 1908, S&W introduced the 44 Special cartridge, and a new revolver was introduced to chamber it. Bigger again than the K frame, the new revolver was built on the N frame. The first of these was the 44 Hand Ejector, 1st Model, also known as the Triple Lock because of the unusual 3rd latch that secured the front of the cylinder yoke to the barrel.

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For a long time, the N frame was the largest revolver S&W made. The 3rd latch was discontinued in 1915, but N frame revolvers were chambered for a variety of cartridges. Two of these were known as the 38/44 Heavy Duty and 38/44 Outdoorsman. These were chambered for 38 Special, but were created specifically for a high velocity 38 Special cartridge. The N frame was chosen for these revolvers because the larger cylinder would have more metal between the chambers than a K frame cylinder. This was necessary at the time to contain the high pressure developed by the high velocity 38 Special cartridges.

This is a 38/44 Outdoorsman. The 38/44 Heavy Duty was the same except it had fixed sights rather than adjustable sights.

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S&W was concerned the high velocity 38 Special cartridges might be loaded into a K frame revolver, which might not be able to handle the higher pressure of the high velocity cartridges. So in 1935 S&W lengthened the cartridge case about 1/10" and called the cartridge the 357 Magnum. The new revolver, also built on the N frame had longer chambers to accommodate the longer shells. The new revolver was simply called The 357 Magnum. The early ones were the Registered Magnums, part of a program of customized 357 Magnum revolvers that S&W built to the customer's specifications, and registered the revolver to the owners.

Later, in 1957, when S&W went to a numbering system for naming their revolvers, The 357 Magnum became the Model 27.

The N frame 357 Magnum revolvers were big and heavy. Because the bore and chambers were smaller than the 44 and 45 caliber N frames, they 357s were heavier than 44 or 45 caliber N frame of the same barrel length.

By 1955 S&W felt that metallurgy had improved enough to offer a 357 Magnum revolver built on the K frame. The new revolver was called the 357 Combat Magnum. After 1957 it was known as the Model 19.

Since the early days of the K frames revolvers, a flat had been cut onto the bottom of the forcing cone. This was a clearance cut put there to clear the gas collar on the cylinder. Never a problem with 38 Special revolvers, but sometimes with the new K frame 357 Magnums the thinner cross section at the bottom of the forcing cone could split from high velocity 357 Magnum ammunition. The arrow is showing the flat spot on the bottom of a Model 19-3.

pnxjCQ1Rj.jpg




That is why the L frame revolvers were developed. The cylinders were slightly larger in diameter than a K frame cylinder, not as big as a N frame cylinder. The larger cylinder meant there was no need for a clearance cut at the bottom of the forcing cone. This is a photo of a L frame Model 686 forcing cone. Note there is no flat on the underside of the forcing cone.

pmSg5ha9j.jpg




That is what S&W is talking about when they say the L frame is built for continuous Magnum usage. Just to be clear, there was never a clearance cut on the bottom of a N frame revolver, and a N frame 357 Magnum revolver is also perfectly suited for continuous Magnum usage. But some shooters think a N frame revolver is just too big and heavy.

This is the forcing cone on a N frame, 357 Magnum Model 28. No flat on the bottom. Notice how massive the barrel is.

po0MWJzAj.jpg



Regarding J frame 357 Magnums: The J frame is the descendant of the old I frame. Pretty much the same size, just a bit different in shape. Personally, I have no use for a J frame 357 Magnum. 38 Special, yes, but I don't like holding onto a J frame when firing 357 Magnum cartridges, too much recoil for my dainty hands.



Here is a photo showing the chambers of a K frame 38 Special on the left, and a L frame 357 Magnum on the right. Note that because the cylinder is larger in diameter, there is room to stuff in an extra chamber into the L frame cylinder.

pm9dpW3wj.jpg




Here is a photo comparing the different frame sizes of Smith and Wesson revolvers. Starting at the upper right, N frame Triple Lock. Next down a K frame 38 Special. Next down a J frame Model 36 (38 Special). Upper left an I frame 38 Regulation Police, and finally a tiny M frame Lady Smith.

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I did not own a L frame revolver when I took that photo. Top to bottom in this photo is a K frame Model 19-3, L frame Model 686 and a N frame Model 28.

pmv24vMhj.jpg
 
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