Smith Carbine

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JCooperfan1911

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I just procured a Pietta reproduction Smith carbine, which is a U.S. Civil War breech-loading cavalry arm. It looks like this:

A7-AA9-A82-8082-4092-ADB6-1-C3-FC3-AD9184.jpg

I think it’s an interesting little rifle. It uses a hard rubber cartridge case that holds the gunpowder and bullet together with a separate musket cap providing ignition. These were popular also after the war and went out West. They break in the middle for loading much like a shotgun.

Has anyone fired or owned one? God bless,

-JCF
 
JCooperfan1911 said:
I just procured a Pietta reproduction Smith carbine, which is a U.S. Civil War breech-loading cavalry arm. It looks like this:

View attachment 1067738

I think it’s an interesting little rifle. It uses a hard rubber cartridge case that holds the gunpowder and bullet together with a separate musket cap providing ignition. These were popular also after the war and went out West. They break in the middle for loading much like a shotgun.

Has anyone fired or owned one? God bless,

-JCF
Click to expand...

I do, Pietta repro, one of my fav BP carbines. Rubber cases are stupid easy to reload and lasts awhile. Red cases are from Yore Supply. Load is 30 grains (if I recall correctly), of 3F with a wad. Cast bullet is sized to .510. Target and group is at 50 yards; could do some more load development... Have fun!
 

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Congrats OP.

I have an original that was given to me by my late father-in-law as a wedding present. This rifle spent its whole life in Massachusetts, being made in Chicopee most likely in the early 1860's (IIRC, haven't had it out of the safe in years) and ending up over 100 years later in Weymouth. According to the story, it was kept in a home there due to fears of southern invasion. I can't verify that of course. It hung over a mantle for many years. My FIL went through a period of his life in which he was a raging alcoholic. The lower portion of the butt was charred by fire at some point, then later someone sanded it smooth, so there is a loss of wood in that region on the order of about 1/4". I can't help but think in a moment of incoherence he may have used it as a fire poker.

Aside from that damage, it appears to have never been fired, though I did take it out in the 90's and shoot it with rubber cases from DGW and a .52 cal Rapine mold. The interior of the breech bears all its original case colors, the exterior color is still strong but very light rust from the generations on top. I have only oiled it, would never go farther than that. One of these years I'll break it out and take better pics.

UbxP0dWFLIufMqbtsu3CVemZc5f7CV28FAPp5Myl56O-OcrDuLn2BfikgYd8MULwrItWNHw=w1200-h318-no?authuser=0.jpg

7AFlCVqTYNtzatZ0fPw6iWrZqQdtCY3WqR9Fw1tLjzgkJAlA4SP8uVKPB1fCYswmtpiResBG=w600-h400-no?authuser=0.jpg
 
I've got one (Pietta).
('Ran an original for several; years back in the N-SSA/'mid `80s... beautiful/practical carbine)
Once I got the Pietta's action/trigger straightened out/taller front sight installed/rear sight aperture (Lodgewood), it shoots exceptionally well.
(See https://thefiringline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6293646&postcount=5 for the issues.)

Comment: I replaced Pietta'sOEM (open-ended/re-enactor) nipple with a standard live-fire/
closed-end nipple M8x1.0 TrackWolf MMI-S. After chasing w/ a 8x1.0 die, the MMI-S is a
perfect-fit replacement and no blowback (at all) even at Max load.

Smith-Carbine-Loader.jpg
(Note 1/4" Small Circle Dot [Office Depot/Staples] on flashhole to keep powder in. Musket cap punches right through it for ignition)

After digging out all my old equip/molds/etc, I began casting the old Lyman 515139(30:1), loading 27gr 3Fg under cornmeal filler in Lodgewood's black plastic tubes. (I have the old white ones somewhere -- just can't find them)
angry.gif

Lubed with standard 2:1 Crisco/Beeswax, I've played with (1) as-cast (.520-.524"); (2) sized to classic 0.515"; and lastly (3) 518"

- The unsized (which I shot in the original Smith) expanded the
tubes to where they were tough to chamber -- but gave "decent"
accuracy at 50yds

- The 0.515" sized made for easier chambering, and also gave
"better"-than-decent accuracy.

- The 0.518" were Goldilocks perfect, and gave me just one
ragged hole at 50

Smith-Carbine-Pietta-518-Sized-sm.jpg

also consider Lee .518x366 and/or the ACC 51-350C
 
Last edited:
JCooperfan1911 said:
I just procured a Pietta reproduction Smith carbine, which is a U.S. Civil War breech-loading cavalry arm. It looks like this:

View attachment 1067738

I think it’s an interesting little rifle. It uses a hard rubber cartridge case that holds the gunpowder and bullet together with a separate musket cap providing ignition. These were popular also after the war and went out West. They break in the middle for loading much like a shotgun.

Has anyone fired or owned one? God bless,

-JCF
Click to expand...
@JCooperfan1911 you have some weird taste when it comes to firearms, but you always show some interesting rifles. :thumbup:
;)
 
MEHavey said:
I've got one (Pietta).
('Ran an original for several; years back in the N-SSA/'mid `80s... beautiful/practical carbine)
Once I got the Pietta's action/trigger straightened out/taller front sight installed/rear sight aperture (Lodgewood), it shoots exceptionally well.
(See https://thefiringline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6293646&postcount=5 for the issues.)

Comment: I replaced Pietta'sOEM (open-ended/re-enactor) nipple with a standard live-fire/
closed-end nipple M8x1.0 TrackWolf MMI-S. After chasing w/ a 8x1.0 die, the MMI-S is a
perfect-fit replacement and no blowback (at all) even at Max load.

View attachment 1067766
(Note 1/4" Small Circle Dot [Office Depot/Staples] on flashhole to keep powder in. Musket cap punches right through it for ignition)

After digging out all my old equip/molds/etc, I began casting the old Lyman 515139(30:1), loading 27gr 3Fg under cornmeal filler in Lodgewood's black plastic tubes. (I have the old white ones somewhere -- just can't find them)
View attachment 1067768

Lubed with standard 2:1 Crisco/Beeswax, I've played with (1) as-cast (.520-.524"); (2) sized to classic 0.515"; and lastly (3) 518"

- The unsized (which I shot in the original Smith) expanded the
tubes to where they were tough to chamber -- but gave "decent"
accuracy at 50yds

- The 0.515" sized made for easier chambering, and also gave
"better"-than-decent accuracy.

- The 0.518" were Goldilocks perfect, and gave me just one
ragged hole at 50

View attachment 1067767

also consider Lee .518x366 and/or the ACC 51-350C
Click to expand...

Do you happen to know what kind of velocity you are getting? How many times can you shoot the rubber tubes?
 
LaneP said:
Congrats OP.

I have an original that was given to me by my late father-in-law as a wedding present. This rifle spent its whole life in Massachusetts, being made in Chicopee most likely in the early 1860's (IIRC, haven't had it out of the safe in years) and ending up over 100 years later in Weymouth. According to the story, it was kept in a home there due to fears of southern invasion. I can't verify that of course. It hung over a mantle for many years. My FIL went through a period of his life in which he was a raging alcoholic. The lower portion of the butt was charred by fire at some point, then later someone sanded it smooth, so there is a loss of wood in that region on the order of about 1/4". I can't help but think in a moment of incoherence he may have used it as a fire poker.

Aside from that damage, it appears to have never been fired, though I did take it out in the 90's and shoot it with rubber cases from DGW and a .52 cal Rapine mold. The interior of the breech bears all its original case colors, the exterior color is still strong but very light rust from the generations on top. I have only oiled it, would never go farther than that. One of these years I'll break it out and take better pics.

View attachment 1067764

View attachment 1067765
Click to expand...
Great heirloom there, did they half any of original ammo by chance? If so, that'll be a great shadow box piece!
 
nofendertom said:
Is there a special reason that rubber tubes are used ?
Click to expand...

During the civil war, the original cartridge were brass. In the extreme humidity of the south the cartridge would corrode and not fit in the chamber. So they switched to rubber.

SC45-70
 
SC45-70 said:
During the civil war, the original cartridge were brass. In the extreme humidity of the south the cartridge would corrode and not fit in the chamber. So they switched to rubber.

SC45-70
Click to expand...

Do you have a source for that? I was under the impression they started as rubber, but later switched to paper.
 
JCooperfan1911 said:
Do you have a source for that? I was under the impression they started as rubber, but later switched to paper.
Click to expand...
My bad, they did start with a rubber cartridge but then tried a paper covered brass cartridge.
I can't remember where I read that they had corrosion problems with the brass.

SC45-70
 
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