Armys new weapon system !

Hmmm. One caliber to rule them all. Wonder if it will become a NATO spec caliber? Not sure we have the clout to ram this down the rest of the free worlds throats like we have in the past.

I almost feel as if this is an attempt to limit surplus access to civilians.

I am sure this will have long term anti-2A repercussions.

Ask me why if it is not evident to whomever.

Airborne Falcon said:

I almost feel as if this is an attempt to limit surplus access to civilians.

I am sure this will have long term anti-2A repercussions.

Ask me why if it is not evident to whomever.

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I always feel good about stocking up on 5.56 and 7.62 mil surp and more so now but this is encouraging:
I don’t see too many folks shooting factory ammo in large quantity anytime soon, however, SIG Sauer will eventually make components and load data available so that handloaders can get in on the action. (Yes, SIG Sauer’s hybrid cases for the .277 Fury are reloadable, which can’t be said for other competitors in the NGSW bid for the U.S. Army contract.)

80,000 psi though? I'll be surprised if this doesn't lead to problems.

I almost feel as if this is an attempt to limit surplus access to civilians.

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Say what?
There hasn't been a US infantry rifle legal for sale to American Commoners since the M14 came out in 1959.
You could jump through hoops for a clone, but that door was closed in 1986.

Is that the 6.8x51 or the 7-08?
If so comparing that to 5.56 is dumb.
About 2x the smokeless powder and 2x the bullet weight of 5.56mm. What do you think is going to happen.

So, is the new 6.8 GP round the same as the 277 Fury, or did they go with the True Velocity composite case?

Not sure if this is the cartridge the military has adopted, but it is what I found. Looks a lot like a 7mm TCU, a bit shorter.

IMHO, 50 years is a bit long to figure out that a .223 cartridge is a bit underpowered for a military round.

That is not the cartridge.
SIG commercial version is .277 Fury.

So, the .276 Pedersen finally gets the nod.

Not that, either.

Probably apocryphal, but there was a story when the 6.8 SPC was in the works that the boffins were looking at 6.5 and 7mm bullets. But the general in charge was a staunch Jack O'Connorite who thought the .270 WCF was the be all and end all and pushed through the .277" bullet.

The only prior interest in the caliber was in 1906 when the Qing dynasty in China bought some 6.8x57 Mausers. After the 1912 revolution, the Republic of China would not continue the deal. Unpaid for and undelivered 6.8s in inventory at Mauser were mostly converted to 8mm for German use in WWI. After that, the RoC just went German all the way and shot 8mms.

This is the round, it's very distinct because the tail end of the case is made of stainless steel, to withstand the massive 80,000 PSI chamber pressure.
6.8x51

And, in a decade, they will change to 6arc because the ammo "weighs too much" . . .

Jim Watson said:

That is not the cartridge.
SIG commercial version is .277 Fury.

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Thanks.
80,000 psi? I think I will give that one a pass.

How is this any better than a .270 Winchester? Shorter, maybe.

Ethan Verity said:

This is the round, it's very distinct because the tail end of the case is made of stainless steel, to withstand the massive 80,000 PSI chamber pressure.
6.8x51
View attachment 1073700

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Now I see why they're putting suppressors on the rifles. That would be one loud cartridge.

1 / 2

I'm actually happy they chose SIG ... I'm a big SIG fan, have been for decades.

And I get the need for the new round, I've been reading about it for months now. It's a thumper and it's just what our modern infantry deserves .... it'll be the hardest hitting small arms round on the battlefield capable of just about anything a modern Airborne Infantryman might ask it to-do. The Chinese and Russians will be scrambling to copy it .... they're behind the curve in that regard. And whatever NATO decides, sobeit.

But what this is soon (not immediately but soon) going-to mean for us civilian folks is no more surplus rifle brass, no more 7.62 x 51 and no more 5.56 x 45 surplus rifle brass. Top Brass and the likes will likely go out of business.

Commercial makers will continue to pump it out as long as there is demand but prices will remain high and only get higher.

The XM5 Rifle will replace the M4/M4A1 carbine within the close combat force, and the XM250 Automatic Rifle is the planned replacement for the M249 Squad Automatic Weapon

Both weapons provide significant capability improvements in accuracy, range and overall lethality. They are lightweight, fire more lethal ammunition, mitigate recoil, provide improved barrel performance, and include integrated muzzle sound and flash reduction.

Both weapons fire common 6.8 millimeter ammunition utilizing government provided projectiles and vendor-designed cartridges. The new ammunition includes multiple types of tactical and training rounds that increase accuracy and are more lethal against emerging threats than both the 5.56mm and 7.62mm ammunition.

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redcon1 said:

I always feel good about stocking up on 5.56 and 7.62 mil surp and more so now but this is encouraging:
I don’t see too many folks shooting factory ammo in large quantity anytime soon, however, SIG Sauer will eventually make components and load data available so that handloaders can get in on the action. (Yes, SIG Sauer’s hybrid cases for the .277 Fury are reloadable, which can’t be said for other competitors in the NGSW bid for the U.S. Army contract.)

80,000 psi though? I'll be surprised if this doesn't lead to problems.

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Well, that's good news RedCon ... that'll be cool. I'm like you though, I'm on a mission now to stock as much 5.56x45 and 7.62x51 brass as I can get my hands on. One of these days it will now be going the way of 8x57 and others I'm afraid.

Jim Watson said:

Say what?
There hasn't been a US infantry rifle legal for sale to American Commoners since the M14 came out in 1959.
You could jump through hoops for a clone, but that door was closed in 1986.

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No I getcha but I was pontificating more along the lines of what happens to all of these x51 and x45 AR, FAL and M1a platforms out here when the surplus ammo dries-up. They'll be relics in the not too distant future. Not in our lifetimes but certainly in our kids' and grandkids' lifetimes. And, when that happens, there will never be a time again in this country when so many of us are as well armed as we are today. These new platforms and this new ammo will be too expensive.

Heck, I dunno ... I guess it's all relative and you can't stop progress.

Airborne Falcon said:

. And, when that happens, there will never be a time again in this country when so many of us are as well armed as we are today. These new platforms and this new ammo will be too expensive.

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Then we have to overcome this and we will. I'm sure there will be a massive new small arms market growing up around this weapon and cartridge. We have to roll with it and make it work for us, not against us.

Airborne Falcon said:

I'm actually happy they chose SIG ... I'm a big SIG fan, have been for decades.

And I get the need for the new round, I've been reading about it for months now. It's a thumper and it's just what our modern infantry deserves .... it'll be the hardest hitting small arms round on the battlefield capable of just about anything a modern Airborne Infantryman might ask it to-do. The Chinese and Russians will be scrambling to copy it .... they're behind the curve in that regard. And whatever NATO decides, sobeit.

But what this is soon (not immediately but soon) going-to mean for us civilian folks is no more surplus rifle brass, no more 7.62 x 51 and no more 5.56 x 45 surplus rifle brass. Top Brass and the likes will likely go out of business.

Commercial makers will continue to pump it out as long as there is demand but prices will remain high and only get higher.

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My Sig 556R rifles were subpar with lacking quality. Sig USA does not get the nod from me.
As soon as the specs for the pistol trial were let out, it was obvious there was only one pistol on the market at that time that met them. It was the polymer Sig. They were trying to get that one from the start. Build quality of Glock, Berretta, and frankly the old SIG pistols are all higher.

Gordon said:

A done deal, wish it shot 6.8 SPC2 , otherwise looks OK .

https://www.army.mil/article/255827...LEr7XDgRYOGBSk6QY46UnzddNvEK9k8JfUYTyiSpzSxDU

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You and I are reading the same article but coming up with different interpretations. The contract is awarded for specifically stated testing.
The value of the initial delivery order on the contract is $20.4 million for weapons and ammunition that will undergo testing. The contract includes accessories, spares and contractor support.
The units are still being designated with an 'X' in the name, indicating that they are still experimental. This reads more like a Phase 3 drug trials grant rather than FDA approval.

Airborne Falcon said:

I'm actually happy they chose SIG ... I'm a big SIG fan, have been for decades.

And I get the need for the new round, I've been reading about it for months now. It's a thumper and it's just what our modern infantry deserves .... it'll be the hardest hitting small arms round on the battlefield capable of just about anything a modern Airborne Infantryman might ask it to-do. The Chinese and Russians will be scrambling to copy it .... they're behind the curve in that regard. And whatever NATO decides, sobeit.

But what this is soon (not immediately but soon) going-to mean for us civilian folks is no more surplus rifle brass, no more 7.62 x 51 and no more 5.56 x 45 surplus rifle brass. Top Brass and the likes will likely go out of business.

Commercial makers will continue to pump it out as long as there is demand but prices will remain high and only get higher.

Click to expand...

As I read the press release, the new weapons will only be for Infantry and Combat Engineers. Everybody else will will be using the M4 and squad weapons they have now. It will be a while before the 7.62x51 and 5.56 NATO will be phased out, if ever.

The NGSW is the Army’s solution to range, accuracy and lethality problems in small arms for the close combat force. It will replace the M4 carbine in the infantry, scouts and combat engineer communities.

The M4 will continue to be used by general purpose forces, essentially all other soldiers in the Army for the coming decades. Marines are also expected to receive quantities of the weapons for their close combat forces.

https://www.defensenews.com/news/yo...er-to-build-its-next-generation-squad-weapon/

Airborne Falcon said:

I'm actually happy they chose SIG ... I'm a big SIG fan, have been for decades.

And I get the need for the new round, I've been reading about it for months now. It's a thumper and it's just what our modern infantry deserves .... it'll be the hardest hitting small arms round on the battlefield capable of just about anything a modern Airborne Infantryman might ask it to-do. The Chinese and Russians will be scrambling to copy it .... they're behind the curve in that regard. And whatever NATO decides, sobeit.

But what this is soon (not immediately but soon) going-to mean for us civilian folks is no more surplus rifle brass, no more 7.62 x 51 and no more 5.56 x 45 surplus rifle brass. Top Brass and the likes will likely go out of business.

Commercial makers will continue to pump it out as long as there is demand but prices will remain high and only get higher.

Click to expand...

The only SIG we have ever owned was a SIG .22 LR Mosquito. I could expect a failure to feed a couple of times per box. Never happened with an HS Model B or Buckmark.

The "Fury" cartridge - ostensibly becoming, at some point, the "Fury" series of cartridges - is at least interesting. Military adoption likely means they will stick around a bit long than, say, the eTronix cartridge.

I look forward to learning more about handloading them. I wonder if the two-piece "brass" will require unique sizing dies, and I wonder how long the brass will last. My only experience with 80,000 PSI loads was accidental...

I wonder if the "typical" rifle action is up to it. It seems to me that the Weatherby action would result in at least a 100% safety factor, but what I don't know about metallurgy is a lot. And of course, if you are going to use a Magnum length action, you might as well use a Magnum length cartridge. A Magnum-length .257 Fury at 80,000 PSI would be amusing. I imagine barrel life would be brutish and short...

This is not replacing the 5.56. This round is for squad weapons replacing the .7.62. and 5.56 in those weapons. Not rifles as yet. Also this round most resembles a 7-08. 6.8.-08 with higher pressure and new style case. Not the 6.8 SPC.