Mauser HSC in 380 Recoil Hurts

jar said:

There were four small 7.65 semi-auto pistols made in Germany during the ramp up to WWII, the Walther PP & PPK, the JP Sauer 38h and the Mauser HSc. Of the three the JP Sauer 38h is by far my favorite and the PPK narrowly beats out the HSc for the bottom slot. My HSc does pinch the webbing on my hand at times but the PPK was simply a Slice&Dice O'Matic. The 38h has just about everything right and IMHO is way far superior to my PP.

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Thanks for posting that chart, jar. A Sauer 38H was the first centerfire pistol I ever bought. After I got other 32s, I thought the Sauer was a bit heavy, but I never bothered to look up the figures for it and compare. Now I don't have to, and it only took 40 years! I guess it's true - "All things come to he who waits".

I usually put 100 rounds, sometimes up to 200 rounds, through my Walther PPK without any discomfort whatsoever... my hand isn't even sore afterwards. I don't understand the almost universal dislike people have about the "recoil" on these guns.

Maybe it's because I have a normal PPK, where the plastic grip forms the backstrap and is likely a bit easier on the hand. Most people buy the PPK/S, which has the full metal backstrap.

I shot a Browning BDA 380 years ago and thought it was too snappy for me. It turned me off of 380 ACP because I could shot a 9 mm Luger for the same or less recoil.

Antihero said:

The P3AT is like trying to fire an exploding credit card

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Excellent analogy. I had a P3AT. “Had” being the key word. Paid $225 for it. Sold it for $225. Painful little bast***! It pinched and whacked my trigger finger and hurt my wrist. Hated that thing.

I did buy an RM380. It was a pleasure to shoot compared to that evil little black demon.

I am not surprised about your experiences with the HSc. I have owned a number of small pistols and found they all have different recoil characteristics. I carried a WALTHER PPK in .32ACP as my off duty gun for about 3 years before going to a GLOCK 42. They PPK was a great shooter with a fairly smooth trigger, small sights and never, ever jammed. I could shoot it accurately enough to 15 yards without problems. It never bit my hand.
I like the PPK so much, I bought a French made MAHURIN model, which was as well made as the PPK. So then I shot it and was surprised that it kicked more than the smaller PPK. The reason is the shape of the grip. For some reason, the GERMAN'S were putting squared off grips on their small gun. Look at pictures of the HSc and PP and you will see what I mean. The PPK has a different, round area under the hammer and is much easier to shoot, in my opinion.
I also owned a .380ACP SIG 232 which while bigger and about the size of the WALTHER PP, had an aluminum frame and a very, very ergonomic grip which fit my hand perfectly I could shoot the SIG all day long. It weighed 2 ounces less than the PPK and was a .380ACP, so I think that grip shape is much more of a problem, than people give credit to.

Jim

The Mauser Hsc is hands down the most attractive pistol of its type that I believe has ever existed. I had a WWII bring back pistol in 32 ACP in near perfect condition that functioned flawlessly. Clearly one of the oddest methods of field stripping I’ve ever seen. Then someone in the mix decided to start making them in 380 back in the late 60s early 70s...worst re-make of a classic pistol that ever existed IMO. The one I had never would run a full magazine of ball ammo. Called Interarms, the importer of the Gun at the time, and was advised that swapping out the magazine springs with those made for the Walther PPKs “might” help...It didn’t help! The feedback from many people that owned these pistols was that many of them had frames that cracked. Bottom line is that this pistol was never designed to run with 380 ammunition. Sold mine to a gunsmith with the understanding that it was for parts and nothing more. Too bad... I loved the way my 32 looked and felt. Wish I had never traded it away. My 380 was a jam-o-matic.

i finally and happily got rid of a bersa thunder 380acp that beat up my hand. i’ve never made it through a full mag of my cousin’s ruger lcp 380acp. the sig p238’s operation just never felt right. the taurus spectrum 380acp was mostly ok to shoot but its stock guide rod and spring is near impossible to reassemble after fieldstripping. a galloway captured unit made reassembly easier but reliably caused jams with simple ball ammo.

my keltec p32 shoots and carries like a dream.

there oughta be law: every maker of a pocket carry pistol must offer it in 32acp.

bannockburn said:

halfmoonclip

If you ever want even more "painful fun", try shooting an Astra Model 600: straight blowback in 9mm.!

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Many years ago I had a Walther PP .32 that had surprising recoil for the caliber and size of the gun and it would regularly bite my hand. While the Astra 600/43 I owned at the same time had strong recoil, it did not sting my hand like the Walther.

gc70

Many years ago I had a Walther PP .32 that had surprising recoil for the caliber and size of the gun and it would regularly bite my hand. While the Astra 600/43 I owned at the same time had strong recoil, it did not sting my hand like the Walther.

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I had that same problem with a Walther PP in .32 ACP as well. I couldn't figure out why an all steel gun like the PP could have so much felt recoil with a cartridge so underpowered as the .32 ACP. Then I learned what straight blowback was and that explained a lot about what was going on with my Astra 600 too! The web of my right hand was good for about 50 rounds with the Astra then I was done for the day!

Traded the HSc off -- straight up -- for a Star PD (before Mas Ayoob and everyone else started touting how great the PD was). Guy at the gunshop apparently believed German .380s were way better than Spanish .45s. Who knew?San Diego, CA in 1993. At the time, I felt as though I'd hit the Lotto jackpot.

I own a PPKs, a PPK and an HSC, I've never shot the PPK but have shot the PPKs many times. The first time I shot it it made red scratch marks on my right hand, I carefully ran the sharp edges at the lower rear area of the slide over a gray wheel (It's stainless so no damage to the finish) and though it doesn't look any different it made a huge difference.
I love the PPKs, it is a beautiful weapon, an iconic weapon and I find shooting .380 perfectly enjoyable. The HSC is also beautiful, though I've only shot a few magazines through it. The disassembly is genius except that it can be hard to pull the plug in the trigger guard down without a struggle, but the way it comes apart is magical and took a bit to get used to.
That reminds me of the C96 Broomhandle, it is very unintuitive to reassemble, the way the barrel and breech installs back into the frame, every time I do it I have to relearn it's secret, and the HSC is only slightly less so in that regard.
Of course any disassembly or assembly process gets easy with a bit of practice, except a detail disassembly of a 1903 Colt auto, you have to grow a third arm!

But back to shooting, I've never understood people saying the .380 is hard recoiling, but that's just me I guess. A lot of people say the 1911 in .45 is too much.
My pastor has a Pachmayr Dominator, which is about an 11" .308 barrel and bolt action receiver on a 1911 frame, I shot that one time and knew I'd known recoil. That same day he shot six rounds through it, and his hand was bleeding between the thumb and forefinger where the gun tried to force it's way free of his grip, now that is some recoil!

bannockburn said:

gc70


I had that same problem with a Walther PP in .32 ACP as well. I couldn't figure out why an all steel gun like the PP could have so much felt recoil with a cartridge so underpowered as the .32 ACP. Then I learned what straight blowback was and that explained a lot about what was going on with my Astra 600 too! The web of my right hand was good for about 50 rounds with the Astra then I was done for the day!

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I dont mind the Astra, but detest the PP-series.....
I found the Sig P230 to be remarkably comfortable to shoot for such a lightweight blowback .380, but my example would eject straight into my forehead, so that had to go down the road.
I stick to locked-breech pocket pistols now.

HisSoldier said:

But back to shooting, I've never understood people saying the .380 is hard recoiling, but that's just me I guess. A lot of people say the 1911 in .45 is too much.

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I wouldn’t say “hard” recoil so much as unpleasantly sharp recoil in blowback pistols of certain grip shapes. A .380 pistol with a blowback action and a thin back strap can really stab my shooting hand between the thumb and forefinger and is not fun to shoot for long. The most unpleasant, punishing handgun I’ve ever shot was probably one of those blowback Polish P-64s in 9mm Makarov.

On the other hand, I was never one to find shooting the small locked-breech .380s unpleasant, and I love shooting full-house rounds in big-bore revolvers, from .41 Mag. on up to .454 Casull.

NIGHTLORD40K

I stick to locked-breech pocket pistols now.

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Me too! Very nice to shoot with little in the way of felt recoil and muzzle flip!

Everyone,

I bought a S$W .380ACP EZ and decided to take it to the range and shoot it against my SIG 232 .380ACP with aluminum frame. The first thing I discovered is that the EZ really is easy to rack the slide and load a round into the chamber. Usually, with the SIG, I cock the hammer on an empty chamber and rack the slide which is much easier than just racking it against a hammer in the down position.

Second, when I shot them, the EZ's milder recoil was really noticeable
.
Third, even with the milder recoil, the SIG 232 was more accurate with smaller groups, in both drills.

As, I get older, the easier to load and shoot EZ will grow in appeal to me. It has already won over my wife who loves it. She finds it easier to shoot and handle than the GLOCK 42 she was shooting before I bought the EZ. The smaller size of the grip is also a better fit for her hand than the BERETTA 92D Compact she has also been shooting

Jim

Yes, I wanted to show my wife how the PPKs shoots and she couldn't rack the slide. I needed her to have a weapon she can rack so I got her an AR, problem solved two ways, she can aim it more accurately and it's easy to load from the magazine, though it's hard to get it into her purse.

I love my HSc. The recoil definitely has some authority, but I kinda like it.
Switching to the pussycat P238 after shooting the HSc seems kinda anticlimactic.

I used to fight the little sliding catch to take the slide off the HSc, but found that if you give the slide a little tap with the palm of your hand, it comes right apart.

On some folks complaining about recoil of .380 in the HSc and PPk while others say they have had no problems with those models in .380 caliber:

People's hands are different, different sizes, different amounts of flesh and skin in the web between the thumb and index finger.

No size grip fits all hands.

The military issued combat boots in different sizes, but those who got standard issue handguns usually got a 1911 or 1911A1. I must say designer John Moses Browning musta had huge hands and the 1911 probably fit him to a T.

blowback .380 recoil is not fun at all. The Walther PP in .380 and .32 are worlds apart in recoil.

Gordon said:

I have a .380 HSC Super that is made by Gamba in Italy but Gives the Mauser address ect. It is strikingly beautiful in machine work and fish . The grip , being a double stack that holds a 15 round magazine is much wider and palm filling than the original HSC . Therefore the recoil , although still a bit block .380 snappy , isn't that bad and the gun is reliable except with flat point .380s which only work with 10 rounds in the mags. The gun is aboutr the same size as a Beretta 84 . I like it , but it is not popular with the ladies I bought it for. I am gonna use it as a hidden (up too high for children ) defense gun in a strategic place .

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As an exercise try “hiding” chocolate or other treats up too high for children. Let them see you get it a couple times.
Tell us how that works out for you.

Jimfern said:

I shot a Browning BDA 380 years ago and thought it was too snappy for me. It turned me off of 380 ACP because I could shot a 9 mm Luger for the same or less recoil.

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That just shows you how different people feel shooting the same gun and ammo. The first semiauto I ever owned was a Browning BDA 380 and I didn't just like it, I LOVED it. I thought it was a breeze to shoot and soon bought a Beretta 84 to go with it. I sold it to a friend many years ago, and instantly regretted it. I have another one now, a really nasty looking surplus gun that shoots fine. I also have a Bereta 81, 84, and 85, and they are all keepers. My favorite small gun is my Astra A-75 9mm. The all steel construction makes it pleasant as far as recoil goes, and the trigger is smooth as glass. I had a .40 A-75, bt I sure didn't have it for very long. It was just plain unpleasant to shoot.

Despite not liking the Browning, my favorite Glock to shoot is a G26 in 9mm Luger.