Marty Daniel and ATF

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matttric

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** I did a search and didn’t see this topic yet, so hopefully this hasn’t already been discussed **
Last week 5 CEOs of gun manufacturers testified before Congress. A question was asked “do you support abolishing the ATF.” Focusing just on Marty Daniel (since Ruger is publicly traded), who said (edited) “not at this time….” Curious what folks on here think of that. I think it’s a tough question to answer when an anti- 2A administration controls all three houses, AND the ATF, so currently I’m on the fence. Thoughts?
 
We could eliminate the FBI and the speed limit on highways as well. It would work in a perfect world that we do not live in.

Living in the DFW area, I would put the speed limit at 25 mph and that is more than the average person here, that lacks basic discipline could handle.
 
Many industries have federal agency watchdogs (such as the FDA, FCC, ICC, FAA, USDA, and on and on). All these industries have gotten used to dealing with the regulatory universe, and they have internal staff whose job it is to interface with the government. In some ways, this relationship is actually protective of the industry. (It takes the heat off the industry, which would result if it was totally unregulated.) Why should the gun industry be any different as regards the ATF? (Remember that we're talking about the big players, and not the small-time guys like individual FFL dealers.)
 
PzGren said:
We could eliminate the FBI and the speed limit on highways as well. It would work in a perfect world that we do not live in.

Living in the DFW area, I would put the speed limit at 25 mph and that is more than the average person here, that lacks basic discipline could handle.[/QUOTE

My son drives CRAZY in DFW...
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matttric said:
. . . testified before Congress.
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My first thought is that you probably don't recognize how fraught a situation he was in. Absolutely nothing he could say would help the cause of freedom, but a ripe 5 second soundbite could tank his employer's stock and end his career.

I'd just as soon have judicious and quiet men running my arms industry, instead of short-sighted blowhards.

Or he could be a Marxist. . . but I bet not.
 
Getting rid of the ATF may not work out the way many think.
As long as there are federal laws on firearms, there will be a federal agency to administer those laws. If you shut down ATF and assign their responsibilities to the FBI, but leave the GCA/NFA intact......guess where there will be job openings and who fills them?
 
edwardware said:
My first thought is that you probably don't recognize how fraught a situation he was in. Absolutely nothing he could say would help the cause of freedom, but a ripe 5 second soundbite could tank his employer's stock and end his career.

I'd just as soon have judicious and quiet men running my arms industry, instead of short-sighted blowhards.

Or he could be a Marxist. . . but I bet not.
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I’m aware of the situation he was in, I feel that. What made me curious about his response, is the ATF is so ANTI- 2A. Also, the CEO from Smith & Wesson simply declined to comment. Much different response.
 
I don’t really think abolishing the ATF would solve many, if any, problems. The laws need repealing, unfortunately we don’t live in that world.

The man answered basically the only way he could, and still have a job. In a private setting who knows what he really thinks.
 
I think if the ATF was abolished all the boogeyman arguments would disappear, what about this law or that ruling. How will XY or Z function.

What WOULD happen is, ppl would recognize the world would go right on functioning a-Ok; less gov't especially onerous portions is always better
 
Any answer to the question "Have you stopped beating your wife?" is going to be a problem. Given where he was and our current administration his answer came close to being his best choice - since there was no right answer and picking a fight with folks that can shut down your business is probably not a very good idea....

Appearing before Congress when they're looking to add regulations (when they're not trying to put you out of business...) is a nightmare. I've been told by someone who's been there - that it will literally shut down most of your normal business activity for a month or two in advance as you prep for (and gather the needed documentation) to be able to present your best case.. to be able to defend your business in front of a "hanging jury".. Not something I'd ever want to be involved in at all...
 
Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives.

Guns are obviously not the only thing they regulate, although here that might be the only thing we care about. Shutting them down would probably not be a good idea.

Personally, my interactions with them have been dealing with polite and helpful employees. Whoever took it over from them could be a lot worse.
 
DeepSouth said:
I don’t really think abolishing the ATF would solve many, if any, problems. The laws need repealing, unfortunately we don’t live in that world.
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Exactly. You could "abolish" the ATF, but in reality all that would mean would be changing the name. The functions would remain. If the functions were transferred to another agency, that agency would take a while to develop the industry-specific expertise that now resides in the ATF. It would be a mess.Think NFA approvals take too long now? Just wait until another agency takes over from scratch.

From my interactions with the ATF, I've come to the conclusion that the rank and file employees are reasonable people. Maybe some agency managers are a bit too zealous. But that's because of political pressures from above.
 
The ATF is a horrible agency but I am not going to look down on Daniel Defense or any of the other gun companies that answered that question in a similar way. The ATF is the alphabet agency that regulates their industry. It would be unwise for them to bad mouth it in such a public setting even if the ATF needs a major overhaul.

I would challenge the members here to name an industry that does not have one or more federal alphabet agencies that regulate their business. There are very few free markets left and most of those take on shades of a black market.
 
mcb said:
The ATF is a horrible agency but I am not going to look down on Danial Defense or any of the other gun companies that answered that question in a similar way. The ATF is the alphabet agency that regulates their industry. It would be unwise for them to bad mouth it in such a public setting even if it need a major overhaul.

I would challenge the members here to name an industry that does not have one or more federal alphabet agencies that regulate their business. There are very few free markets left and most of those take on shades of a black market.
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I agree. It does no good to shoot yourself in the foot in this type of situation. If I was in that situation I would have answered in a similar fashion. Abolish the ATF - NO, is there a need for an overhaul and improvements - YES.

All of my interactions with ATF field agents were always positive back when I had my FFL. Supervisors were a different story at times, they seemed to be more politically driven.

FL-NC said:
Anyone who causes me more problems than solutions is not my friend. I don't like the irs very much either. They have been extorting me since I was 16, and to add insult to injury, squandering what they got from me.
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This has been going on for a long time. since the founding of our country. The feds want their tax money. Look at the whiskey rebellion for a prime example. And I remember my grandpa always talking about the "dang revenuers" chasing/trying to arrest him back in the day. We still had to be careful of them when I was a kid, they were the same agency still but called ATF agents instead of revenuers.
 
I would like to give Daniel the benefit of the doubt. When you are talking to Congress, every word should be carefully thought out. If Daniel had said "ATF should be disbanded and agents arrested" that would not make him "look good" to the anti gunners. Just like if he said "ATF are his best friends" would not look good to those of us that advocate gun rights. In my opinion, "not at this time" was one of the safest answers he could have given.
 
The ATF is not the problem. The problem is the laws. They need to be seriously tweaked. If federal firearms laws don't get fixed, it does not matter much if the ATF exists or not. There will be some federal agency enforcing those laws.

I am not in favor of abolishing the ATF because we might get something worse under current conditions.
 
The Alcohol and Tobacco Tax and Trade Bureau (TTB) in the Department of the Treasury is collecting FAET of 10 to 11% on the sales price of ammo, firearms and archery equipment. A large part of the funds go the wildlife restauration fund. The rate has been the same since its inception and generated about $800 million in 2017.

Certain other three letter agencies would most likely be happy to handle the FAET collection but I do not expect a great big improvement and not only in the FAET collection but also in enforcing firearms laws that exist or may be implemented in the future.
 
dogtown tom said:
Getting rid of the ATF may not work out the way many think.
As long as there are federal laws on firearms, there will be a federal agency to administer those laws. If you shut down ATF and assign their responsibilities to the FBI, but leave the GCA/NFA intact......guess where there will be job openings and who fills them?
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Well said.
ilbob said:
The ATF is not the problem. The problem is the laws. They need to be seriously tweaked. If federal firearms laws don't get fixed, it does not matter much if the ATF exists or not. There will be some federal agency enforcing those laws.

I am not in favor of abolishing the ATF because we might get something worse under current conditions.
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Again, well said.

In the years I worked for Les, I met a lot of ATF agents during compliance checks. Especially after Les got his class III SOT tax stamp. ( or whatever it's called. ) They were helpful, courteous, and friendly. And a bit resentful that so many people hated them for just trying to do an unpopular job.
 
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