FBI 1970s Standard for DA Revolver Use

Not in the FBI, and first Ive heard of this. I shoot one or another revolver DAO, at least once a week, and dryfire at least one on a daily basis. It didnt sound like it would be much of a problem.

I just tried it with my old NY DOC Model 10 trade in. As far as I know, the gun is still stock, as the DA trigger feels like the other stock Model 10's I have (no idea as to its weight).

I "just" made the 67 pulls in 30 seconds, and while I started out strong, it was really starting to drop off at around 20 seconds and I just squeaked in at 30. If I were to do it again, I probably wouldnt make it right away. Didnt try it weak hand either.

It makes perfect sense they would want you to shoot DAO, and to build and maintain your muscle tone, and I think thats why a lot of people these days have trouble shooting that way, as with the autos being the norm, its not something that is normally taught. With a lot of the autos being DA guns, its something that you should still strive to be well versed in. I shoot a number of different DA autos on a regular basis, and the constant revolver shooting DAO is definitely a carryover plus there too.

Several agencies in the DFW area had a trigger pull test for the physical agility test. I think it was 50 pulls or so.

They had another where after a 100 yard dash, or something, you grabbed a revolver and aimed it through a small metal circle. There was a wire and low voltage on the gun.

If you touched the ring, it buzzed. Buzzing was bad. Had to control your breathing and adrenalin.

Back then, FBI agents were the next best thing to elite athletes. Hand strength was probably something only a few of them didn’t have.

I applied at the Orange County SO back in 1990.

The first thing you had to do prior to entering the room for the written test was pull a DA revolver trigger 12 times. (I recall the trigger pull being pretty stiff, much heavier than stock S&W triggers.)

They had a Model 66 or 65 frame (I cant recall if it had sights) welded to a solid rod where the barrel would be. The examiner held the rod while the applicants held the gun by the grip and “fired.”

I recall several people went home without ever making it into the door.

After the written you had to don a Sam Browne belt with lead weights in several handcuff cases set around it and push a chevy caprice the length of a basketball court, drag a 165 lb deadweight dummy across the court, 100 yd. obstacle course, pull ups, wall jumps, 500 yd run, etc. all while they scored the tests.

Many more left after these, too.

Then if you had scores that passed, and you passed the written, it was time to change into a suit for oral interviews.

Man, I wish I was still in the shape I was then!

Stay safe.

When I hired on. 1984. It was an obstacle course.

2-4-5-6 ft walls. A serpentine run. Through a 25 ft tunnel. Up an incline telephone pole. A 20 Ft balance beam and monkey bars.

Then X number of sit-ups and the push-ups in one minute.

Then a 165 lb body drag 25 yards as I recall.

Then a sprint up a 4 story drill tower and back down, for time.

And finally, a half mile run.

I did it in July. In Texas. I thought I was gonna die. Stopped at a 7-11 on the way home. Bought two bags of ice and a Gatorade. Sat on one bag of ice. Dumped the other inside my tucked in T shirt.

Good training for wearing a navy blue polyester uniform and body armor. Working a major accident on the interstate. At 105 degrees. In rush hour. When the soles of your boots would stick to the soft asphalt. Probably 125 on that highway. Clearing that and getting in a foot chase in the hood. With a 17 year old. Wearing shorts and a tank top. While I had 23 pounds of crap wrapped around me.

Many a day, I came home. Every ounce of deodorant. Talcum powder and cologne was soaked into my socks.

36 years. No idea how I survived that.

God it was fun.

sgt127 said:

When I hired on. 1984. It was an obstacle course.

2-4-5-6 ft walls. A serpentine run. Through a 25 ft tunnel. Up an incline telephone pole. A 20 Ft balance beam and monkey bars.

Then X number of sit-ups and the push-ups in one minute.

Then a 165 lb body drag 25 yards as I recall.

Then a sprint up a 4 story drill tower and back down, for time.

And finally, a half mile run.

I did it in July. In Texas. I thought I was gonna die. Stopped at a 7-11 on the way home. Bought two bags of ice and a Gatorade. Sat on one bag of ice. Dumped the other inside my tucked in T shirt.

Good training for wearing a navy blue polyester uniform and body armor. Working a major accident on the interstate. At 105 degrees. In rush hour. When the soles of your boots would stick to the soft asphalt. Probably 125 on that highway. Clearing that and getting in a foot chase in the hood. With a 17 year old. Wearing shorts and a tank top. While I had 23 pounds of crap wrapped around me.

Many a day, I came home. Every ounce of deodorant. Talcum powder and cologne was soaked into my socks.

36 years. No idea how I survived that.

God it was fun.

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Yup. After many a shift like those I’ve drank two quarts of Gatorade and later produced a thimble of 14K gold-colored urine because I had sweat it all out.

All that sweat, rain, heat, use sure took the finish off the slide of my SIG P226 in short order!

Stay safe.

When I bought my first DA revolver, a 629, I followed the advice of "dry fire the hell out of it" to smooth the trigger out. Every day on my work commute, I would pull that trigger until I couldn't pull anymore, then switch hands. My endurance after a couple of weeks was noticeably improved, along with my feel for that trigger.

The trigger-pull part of the FBI physical agility test was challenged in court and found to be excessive and not part of a job requirement. There was some belief that this requirement was specifically designed to prevent females from becoming agents.

All from a Sloan holster..............yep.

I can't speak to anything about old FBI standards, but I remember for my first job, you didn't touch a handgun until the academy.

My first job after retiring from the military, to physically qualify for the state law enforcement academy, I had to run 440 yards in (I think) 75 seconds, do a bunch of push-ups, some sit-ups and a body drag. Even after age 40 -- just out of twenty-some years active duty doing PT every day -- it was cake. I couldn't believe how many young people were failing. Then they went to:
Four tests: 300-Meter Run, Maximum Push-Ups (no time limit), Sit-Ups (One Minute), 1.5-Mile Run / Walk. The mile-and-a-half was the killer for most folks, especially the females.

Now it's:
1. Squat Thrusts 3 MINUTES TO COMPLETE A MINUMUM OF 35 SQUAT THRUSTS TO PASS
2. Sit Up Test 90 seconds to complete a minimum of 25 sit ups to pass.
3. Pushup Test 90 seconds to complete a minimum of 20 pushups to pass.

As you may note, testing has clearly evolved to ensure more females and the folks who've never done anything in the physical fitness arena in their lives, can qualify for hire.

So when I became a firearms instructor (which I'd done in the military for a while as well), most of the folks we were dealing with (2005 on), unless they were prior military (and it seems at least in my state, there was a concerted attempt to control the numbers of ex-military getting hired) or LE, had ZERO experience with firearms. Sometimes that made it easier though.

Since LE isn't all about firearms these days, a trigger-pull test has no application. But perhaps it would scare the snowflakes away and allow agencies to hire more folks with proper mindsets (i.e., acceptance that use of physical force is gonna be something you WILL do, and use of deadly force is always a possibility)/

Old Dog said:

My first job after retiring from the military, to physically qualify for the state law enforcement academy, I had to run 440 yards in (I think) 75 seconds, do a bunch of push-ups, some sit-ups and a body drag. Even after age 40 -- just out of twenty-some years active duty doing PT every day -- it was cake. I couldn't believe how many young people were failing.

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After coming out of the military I thought the Academy was like "summer camp with guns."

I recall the "reality check" session the first week in the academy. Instructors would show videos of actual police shootings and pass around the weapons of those killed in the line of duty. I remember Jerry Dove's pistol had a big hole in its side where one of Platt's .223 rounds had hit it. It was not unusual to have someone just quit right then and there.

After shooting alot of USPSA with a revolver I was usually pretty happy with a stage if I had good hits and averaged 1 round per second, but remember that averaging 1rd/sec includes move through the stage and doing reloads.

DR505 said:

After coming out of the military I thought the Academy was like "summer camp with guns."

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Us vets called it, "Camp Cupcake." The leisurely jog around the grounds after 30 minutes of PT used to crack us up.

We didn't see the videos until we got into the serious parts of the curriculum (way after the first week). Now there's courses on "emotional intelligence," "purposeful behavior," "road to respect," it's not all about tactics and effective interviewing and reporting, powers of arrest and all the old stuff.

DR505 said:

I remember Jerry Dove's pistol had a big hole in its side where one of Platt's .223 rounds had hit it. It was not unusual to have someone just quit right then and there.

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That kind of stuff can be pretty powerful. I remember a video of a state trooper getting gunned downed during a routine traffic stop got a couple people to quit on the same day (not from my academy class, much later after dash-cams and body-cams became prevalent).

Riomouse911 said:

Then if you had scores that passed, and you passed the written, it was time to change into a suit for oral interviews.

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I still have the suit, just can't fit into the pants.

S

sgt127 said:

Several agencies in the DFW area had a trigger pull test for the physical agility test. I think it was 50 pulls or so.

They had another where after a 100 yard dash, or something, you grabbed a revolver and aimed it through a small metal circle. There was a wire and low voltage on the gun.

If you touched the ring, it buzzed. Buzzing was bad. Had to control your breathing and adrenalin.

Click to expand...

NYPD does this. 15 trigger pulls with a DAO trigger set at about 12 pounds. Put the gun through a metal square and 15 pulls with each hand.

DR505 said:

The trigger-pull part of the FBI physical agility test was challenged in court and found to be excessive and not part of a job requirement. There was some belief that this requirement was specifically designed to prevent females from becoming agents.

Click to expand...

When the NYS Police were forced to drop the 5’10” minimum height requirement, they got around it for a while by requiring a trainee be able to test a shotgun over the roof of a patrol car to fire it. Don’t recall how long that was allowed to go on.

Texas DPS had a part of the physical agility test to change the tire on a squad car. Full size pursuit radial. Many smaller and weaker candidates could not muscle that thing out of the well.

The defended it for a long time as a realistic requirement for a Trooper out in West Texas with a flat.

sgt127 said:

Texas DPS had a part of the physical agility test to change the tire on a squad car. Full size pursuit radial. Many smaller and weaker candidates could not muscle that thing out of the well.

The defended it for a long time as a realistic requirement for a Trooper out in West Texas with a flat.

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That is a totally reasonable test since a flat out in the middle of nowhere needs to be dealt with.

Homerboy said:

That is a totally reasonable test since a flat out in the middle of nowhere needs to be dealt with.

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Didn't they have two-way radios in their cars?

Riomouse911 said:

I applied at the Orange County SO back in 1990.

The first thing you had to do prior to entering the room for the written test was pull a DA revolver trigger 12 times. (I recall the trigger pull being pretty stiff, much heavier than stock S&W triggers.)

They had a Model 66 or 65 frame (I cant recall if it had sights) welded to a solid rod where the barrel would be. The examiner held the rod while the applicants held the gun by the grip and “fired.”

I recall several people went home without ever making it into the door.

After the written you had to don a Sam Browne belt with lead weights in several handcuff cases set around it and push a chevy caprice the length of a basketball court, drag a 165 lb deadweight dummy across the court, 100 yd. obstacle course, pull ups, wall jumps, 500 yd run, etc. all while they scored the tests.

Many more left after these, too.

Then if you had scores that passed, and you passed the written, it was time to change into a suit for oral interviews.

Man, I wish I was still in the shape I was then!

Stay safe.

Click to expand...

I applied to the same outfit in 2003 or so. The physical involved a short run with some obstacles. Certainly no trigger pulling or car pushing, and I passed it even as sort-of old and definitely out of shape. The written was even less stringent. The interview was a bloodbath, which is why I sell hearing aids for a living.

Beyond any of that, I am less impressed by someone who can pull a revolver trigger sixty times in thirty seconds than by someone who can actually speedload a revolver fast enough to keep up that rate of fire!

DR505 said:

Didn't they have two-way radios in their cars?

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Of course. Who knows how long until somebody can respond? Not to mention taking somebody out of service to go help you change a tire. And the guy with the flat is out of service too. Two cars out of service and unable to respond to calls.

I once used my AAA card to call for a truck for gas. We were assigned two prisoners to bring to Central Booking. Former NYPD guys will know about the gas procedure in NYC precincts. Not every command had pumps, and they were frequently out of service. Central would advise who was pumping at the beginning of tour but that didn’t mean they actually were. We went to the 84 precinct(or maybe it was the 88? Definitely one of those. I think 88) and they were out. We crossed our fingers and hoped we
Would make it. We didn’t. Out came the AAA card. Good for any vehicle you are operating! Good thing about being in a city is lots of AAA coverage, and it being a midnight tour no traffic on the road. I remember telling the operator I was driving a white and blue Chevy. No mention of police car! No
Cell phone but thankfully pay phones everywhere in 1995. Perps were
Complaining but I told them to shut up. Not like they had anywhere else to be. Their cheese sandwich would be waiting for them at central booking when they got there. When the truck pulled up, the driver kept looking around confused. I walked up
And said he was there for me. We both had a laugh.

If you can’t change a flat, you shouldn’t be a cop.

I was once in a very long, fairly slow pursuit.

The guy would stop. Hold himself “hostage” for a bit. And drive off again.

I’d been watching my gas needle dropping…then the fuel light came on…we were 20 miles outside our city.

Fortunately, he again stopped in a Costco parking lot. There were lots of other cops handling him so, I ran over to the pumps and put 10 gallons in.

So…we have a car. Surrounded by cops. Lights flashing. Yelling over the PA.

And me. About 100 yards away getting gas.

I notice this old guy laughing. I looked over at him and said “You ever try pushing a heavy ass Crown Vic 20 miles back to our city?”

I thought he was gonna drop laughing.

Homerboy said:

Of course. Who knows how long until somebody can respond? Not to mention taking somebody out of service to go help you change a tire. And the guy with the flat is out of service too. Two cars out of service and unable to respond to calls.

If you can’t change a flat, you shouldn’t be a cop.

Click to expand...

sgt127 said:

I was once in a very long, fairly slow pursuit.

The guy would stop. Hold himself “hostage” for a bit. And drive off again.

I’d been watching my gas needle dropping…then the fuel light came on…we were 20 miles outside our city.

Fortunately, he again stopped in a Costco parking lot. There were lots of other cops handling him so, I ran over to the pumps and put 10 gallons in.

So…we have a car. Surrounded by cops. Lights flashing. Yelling over the PA.

And me. About 100 yards away getting gas.

I notice this old guy laughing. I looked over at him and said “You ever try pushing a heavy ass Crown Vic 20 miles back to our city?”

I thought he was gonna drop laughing.

Click to expand...

Gotta do what you gotta do! You could almost watch the needle on the gas gauge move as you drove those Crown Vic’s, and nothing said “Cop” more than an unmarked Crown Vic. Those cars had huge balls but they were gas hogs. Awful in the winter, though.