This is for you Goex guys

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Thank goodness there ARE still modern uses for black powder, if it were just up to us black powder shooting enthusiasts and reenacting groups, it would have probably disappeared from the market long ago.

I am curious what all it's used for in modern defense applications though. Do any modern guns still use it, or is it just used for one-time explosive/propellant devices like the mentioned aircraft ejection seat? I'm trying to think where else it would be applicable that wouldn't better be served with smokeless powder...
 
Yep, BP has been used by the military extensively in the modern era, though in the areas I used it, they converted to smokeless sometime in the late 80's. They were using it in naval guns in the 80' and 90's and probably still do.

This shot is from my days as a USMC ordnanceman, taken in 1983 at MCAS Yuma. We were loading Mk 81 250 lb GP bombs on a Marine A4F Skyhawk. The cartridges used to eject those from rack were in an aluminum case and something a little bigger in diameter than a 10 gauge shotgun shell (but shorter). The load was a base charge of a granulation about 1F, and with much larger pellets on top of that. At the end of the shooting day we had to pull the breeches and ejector feet for cleaning in soapy water. The kids that had never shot BP before going into the service complained they stunk like rotten eggs. To me it smelled like home :)

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Cowhide Cliff said:
Misconception? I've never heard a single person say or think that sporting use is the main consumer of black powder.
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You must not get around much in the black powder community. There are more than a few that think with their 1-2lbs per year consumption is something that a large corporation would take notice of if they "band" together and sign petitions, etc. There are those who think the NMLRA is a big user, but.... there is one many don't know about.

One group that the powder companies DO look at is the North South Skirmish Association. The upper management of Estes, Schuetzen and Wano have paid a visit to our home range in the last couple months to see for themselves. Based on a simple internal estimate, black powder usage of the N-SSA at our Nationals totals easily over 2.5TONS each year, and that doesn't include artillery use at each Nationals or at regionals with an artillery component, so add that in with all the regionals we hold during the rest of the year and the figure just gets way bigger. Based on what I've been told by the artillery guys and couple that with a normal regional course of fire, and our use rate per year is easily over 5TONS. I personally go through over 30lbs per year and sometimes closer to 50 and I'm not unusual in the N-SSA.
 
dave951 said:
You must not get around much in the black powder community. There are more than a few that think with their 1-2lbs per year consumption is something that a large corporation would take notice of if they "band" together and sign petitions, etc. There are those who think the NMLRA is a big user, but.... there is one many don't know about.

One group that the powder companies DO look at is the North South Skirmish Association. The upper management of Estes, Schuetzen and Wano have paid a visit to our home range in the last couple months to see for themselves. Based on a simple internal estimate, black powder usage of the N-SSA at our Nationals totals easily over 2.5TONS each year, and that doesn't include artillery use at each Nationals or at regionals with an artillery component, so add that in with all the regionals we hold during the rest of the year and the figure just gets way bigger. Based on what I've been told by the artillery guys and couple that with a normal regional course of fire, and our use rate per year is easily over 5TONS. I personally go through over 30lbs per year and sometimes closer to 50 and I'm not unusual in the N-SSA.
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You would be very wrong. I'm with the crowds that buy it in 25 or 50 pound cases per season so what is all your bragging? Until recently I was going through around 25 pounds per year myself. I'm not saying there aren't those few people that may think that but your original post acts like it's almost all BP shooters and point was it's likely just a very few that would think that. Anyone that uses much BP realizes all of it's uses other than sporting arms and such.
 
How far up the tree can you piss?

We’re what you might call aficionados around here. We pay attention to the stuff we need and where it comes from. The John Q. Public who buys his stuff once a year probably doesn’t know or care, as long as the lgs or Wally World has something that goes pop. Like it or not, they’re the majority of muzzleloading shooters today and they don’t even use blackpowder. Moving forward that is unlikely to change. Nobody wants to fool with the real thing when shipping, storing, and selling the substitutes is so much easier.
 
Ethan Verity said:
Thank goodness there ARE still modern uses for black powder, if it were just up to us black powder shooting enthusiasts and reenacting groups, it would have probably disappeared from the market long ago.

I am curious what all it's used for in modern defense applications though. Do any modern guns still use it, or is it just used for one-time explosive/propellant devices like the mentioned aircraft ejection seat? I'm trying to think where else it would be applicable that wouldn't better be served with smokeless powder...
Click to expand...
It's still used as a primary charge for large caliber cannons, it ignites at a lower temperature than the modern powders and has a very long shelf life. It also is used for real world training exercises.
 
Even if someone used 100lbs, 200lb, a year shooting all day every day in pistols and rifles, it wouldn't be a drop in the bucket in the scheme of things.
There may be some folks overly self centered that assume they are a big deal and part of the super user club for Black Powder, but no one I personally know is so delusional, and I doubt most BP shooter are either.
Someone must be hanging around a bunch of "Smell Me" people, if that's the impression that was made.
 
There's a serious muzzleloading forum I hang out on where they were/are all anxious about the survival of the Goex brand, even to the point of talk of getting up a petition to have somebody purchase the brand. I find it amusing that a bunch of guys who swear by Goex to the exclusion of any other source or brand and only use a couple pounds per year (max!) think their opinion would sway any corporate types when uncle sugar is the main and primary user.

My point and if it offends anybody, IDC, is that there are some folks in the black powder community that are serious consumers, far in excess of what a casual plinker uses. Of all the black powder organizations, many know of the NMLRA, but the NMLRA, while a great supporter of muzzleloading and black powder, is not the largest user of black powder in the civilian/hobby world. If you want to call it an elitist attitude, you miss the point. Even with the amounts we use in the N-SSA, we're not even a sneeze of what uncle sugar uses. So when it comes down to civilian consumption, a domestic corporation will be filling gov contracts first and foremost and if there's some left at the end, then the civies will get to buy some too.
 
The military use of black powder is as clear as mud. However, I did find some use of black powder as an igniter of the main charge of large naval guns which use a group of long smokeless powder sticks called a "bag". One article said black powder is used as ai the ignition system for all 5, 6, 8 and 10, 12 and 16 inch "guns" as well as in some fuses. Black powder helps big guns ignite the main charge evenly and consistently since the projectile is separate from the propellent. In 16 inch battleship or cruiser guns 4 to 6 "bags" of propellent may be used depending on the type and application of the projectile. Ther trick is to get all those bags of propellent to ignite together. I found two examples where the bags are built somewhat like a 777 Pellet. There are holes through the propellent block to promote consistent and rapid ignition and black powder is used at the rear of each bag to help ignition, again almost like 777 pellets.
 
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