Credit Card Tracking

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James K2020

James K2020

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There was another thread regarding this subject that is now locked. I received this email from an ammo supplier I just bought from and thought I would share:


Message from the Owner Regarding Credit Card Tracking


Dear Customers of KIR Ammo,



Thank you all for your continued support of our family-owned business.


Because of repeated phone calls and emails from you and new customers alike, I want to address the current issue of major credit card companies attempting to categorize/track gun and ammo purchases. The ISO (International Organization for Standardization) has long been petitioning credit card companies to create a separate MCC (Merchant Category Code) for firearms and ammunition purchases. These MCCs define a business's primary source of revenue. As of today, KIR Ammo's code is 5941 (Sporting Goods), along with other retail giants like Academy Sports and Outdoors, Cabela's, Bass Pro, Dick's Sporting Goods and many others. Keep in mind, credit card companies are not legally bound by ISO rules, they are merely suggestions.



As defined by VISA, MCC 5941 includes the following: Backpacking Equipment, Bait, Tackle Stores, Billiard Tables, Camping Equipment, Cutlery – Sporting Knives, Exercise Equipment, Fishing Equipment, Bait, Tackle, Golf Equipment, Gun Shops, Hiking Equipment, Hunting Equipment, Supplies, In-Line Skates Shops, Pool Tables, Rollerblade Shops, Scuba, Skin Diving Equipment, Skateboard Shops, Ski Shops, Skin Diving, Scuba Equipment, Surfboards, Accessories, Trekking Equipment, Windsurf Boards.



As you can see, this list is very long and encompasses a wide variety of sporting goods. I pose the question: how will credit card companies know whether you've purchased 10 hats from KIR Ammo, 50 stickers, a flamethrower, ammo cans, optics, brass, or anything other than a gun or finished ammo when we run your card? Let me make this abundantly clear: KIR Ammo will NEVER share any of your invoices, packing slips, or purchase history with ANYONE, unless we are being audited by the ATF (which is a Federal requirement for all FFLs - and even then, they are only allowed to see what guns have been purchased/transferred through our License - nothing else). Also, how will the credit card companies know if somebody walks into Academy (insert any sporting goods store) to buy a weight bench versus a Glock versus a grill or anything else? On the surface it seems unenforceable and far too complicated to me, but alas, here we are talking about this. Last question: do credit card companies REALLY want to do this? Even as a small company, KIR Ammo pays roughly 3% of our Gross Revenue in credit card processing fees every month - do they really want to lose that cash flow by pushing people away from using cards?



FOR THOSE WISHING TO USE OTHER FORMS OF PAYMENT: we are currently accepting Zelle, CashApp, Wire Transfers, and money orders/bank checks - please call to make arrangements if you wish to choose any of those options (personal checks are ok, but it will take forever to get your ammo because we would have to wait for it to get here AND clear in our account before shipment). Of course, if you are local, we accept cash.



I trust this finds you well and always feel free to call (817) 818-8640 with any questions or concerns.



PS. RESIDENTS OF ILLINOIS: my next message (in a couple weeks) will review the SAFE-T Act which goes into effect January 1, 2023 and essentially grants $0 bail for many egregious and violent offenses in your State. I advise you look into this legislation on your own in the meantime.


Respectfully,



V.C., Owner – KIR Ammo
 
I got an email from RMR too.
''So, as we have all come to expect, we never can be left alone to just live our lives in peace. In the last couple of days I've been hit with tons of emails asking if we have an alternate form of payment other than credit cards because of the "new rules." I was unaware of any "new rules" so I had to do some research. Well, turns out it's pretty simple. Basically, gun control conspirators apparently were able to get credit card companies to add a merchant code for "gun stores" by going through an international organization. The gun control guys are saying that it will help stop mass shootings. If you are like me and you are wondering how it can possibly prevent gun crime, I imagine they use the same fantasy-world reasoning that they've used for all the other useless rules they've invented. Let's be honest, if reality was considered in any of the left's policies, you wouldn't have to punch someone in the balls for them to know they were a man.

Anyway, even the ultra leftist propaganda media outlets are reporting that it's unclear how it will make any difference. Well, the truth is that it won't. The truth is that it's just another opportunity to control guns by financial gatekeeping. They know that if they can single out gun stores then they can someday add costs or add "rules" or anything to impede the honest sale of anything they disagree with. We saw it with operation "Choke Point" and "Fast and Furious." (If you're not aware of what those were, a google search is sure to get your temperature up). While I don't think that this particular rule change will immediately make any difference whatsoever, it's just one brick in a giant wall that will eventually block us from our freedoms.

So, to alleviate your fears a little, RMR uses the "Sporting Goods" merchant code. Also, I figure that with how well our Nuke expands, if they ever ask me to change our merchant code I'll just call it a "Floral Shop." Or since pretty much all of our product gets planted into the ground I could call it "Agricultural Products."

I hope this clarifies our position on the new credit card "rules." When buying from RMR it is currently a non-issue. That said, if voting was still something I had any faith in, I would urge people to consider this issue when they vote. ''
 
It is all so political. but his is the "logic" they feel will work to control gun violence I didn't know it was the job of backs and credit companies to contoll gun sales
Terrorist groups are not gonna be using their VISA to bu stockpiles of arms and ammo!

Just more feel good legislation. "

"While the measure has been lauded by politicians such as Massachusetts senators Elizabeth Warren and Ed Markey among others, it isn’t clear how this process will work.


Numerous top level credit card companies such as PayPal, Stripe and Square don’t allow gun purchases. For the credit companies that do allow the purchases, the total cost can be extra high due to interest.

As a result, many gun buyers often use cash for their purchases; potential buyers are often seen asking in online forums whether it’s better to buy guns with cash or credit, with many voting for cash.

Meanwhile, fintech companies such as Credova, built for the purpose of allowing installment plans for gun purchases, shrug off their role when asked about how people like the Uvalde, Texas, shooter purchased guns through their platform using a debit card.

John Feinblatt, president of Everytown for Gun Safety, welcomed ISO’s decision, which was announced on Friday, and said it’s now crucial for this to be implemented thoroughly.

“Today’s announcement is a critical first step towards giving banks and credit card companies the tools they need to recognize dangerous firearm purchasing trends – like a domestic extremist building up an arsenal – and report them to law enforcement,” he said in a statement shared with the Guardian.


Amalgamated Bank, which brands itself as a “socially responsible bank” had requested the codes to the ISO.

On Friday, they celebrated their victory, thanking their partners, including New York governor Kathy Hochul and New York Attorney General Tish James.


Priscilla Sims Brown, president and CEO of the bank, said in a statement that the code will open the path for banks to report suspicious or illegal gun sale activity in a way that will not interfere with legal gun sales.

“This action answers the call of millions of Americans who want safety from gun violence and we are proud to have led the broad coalition of advocates, shareholders, and elected officials that achieved this historic outcome,” she added.

The tracking and blocking of illegal gun sales has already made headway with FBI background checks, according to Everytown.

In 2020, the FBI background checks led to blocking more than 300,000 illegal gun purchases, nearly double the number of 2019.

The same year, gun purchases increased dramatically as people were stuck indoors during the first wave of the pandemic; records show there were 20m legal purchases in 2020, up from 12.4m the year before.

In a statement, the Alliance for Gun Responsibility said: “We are glad to see the financial industry take action to recognize that it has a role to play in helping keep our communities safe. Passing stronger gun laws is essential, but it is just one piece of the puzzle when it comes to addressing the gun violence epidemic.”
 
With gun and ammo sales so high, banks and CC processors are getting rich off us, I doubt they’d kill the golden goose.
 
This type of legislation is mostly due to the lack of consensus of universal background checks.
There doesn't appear to be any definition of 'suspicious activity' or what constitutes an 'arsenal build-up'.
Devil is always in the details.
 
James K2020 said:
This type of legislation is mostly due to the lack of consensus of universal background checks.
There doesn't appear to be any definition of 'suspicious activity' or what constitutes an 'arsenal build-up'.
Devil is always in the details.
Click to expand...
I read earlier today that Visa will not let this interfere with any legal purchases....... Sounds like they're adding the new code but will not enforce it as they really have no way of knowing if a purchase is legal or not.
 
Who decides what Merchant Category Code a store uses? Must the specific items listed under the code reflect the stores primary source of income? If so, do the credit card companies or banks police and enforce the code selection?

If the store selects their own MCC they can simply pick a broader category that encompasses non-firearm related products, such as Sporting Goods, in order to blur the nature of their sales data. But if the credit card companies or banks select the code or police the store’s selection, then the stores who receive their primary income from firearm related products are vulnerable to credit denial. These are likely the smaller LGS and internet businesses, especially those with “gun” or “ammo” or other firearm related words in their name.

If the latter is true, then I can see the next step being woke politicians, companies, and organizations pressuring the banks to deny credit for all purchases under this new code. This would hurt many small gun businesses without endangering the income the card companies and banks receive from the large department and sporting goods stores. Not a total victory, but another meaningful step toward their goal.
 
TomVA said:
Who decides what Merchant Category Code a store uses? Must the specific items listed under the code reflect the stores primary source of income? If so, do the credit card companies or banks police and enforce the code selection?

If the store selects their own MCC they can simply pick a broader category that encompasses non-firearm related products, such as Sporting Goods, in order to blur the nature of their sales data. But if the credit card companies or banks select the code or police the store’s selection, then the stores who receive their primary income from firearm related products are vulnerable to credit denial. These are likely the smaller LGS and internet businesses, especially those with “gun” or “ammo” or other firearm related words in their name.

If the latter is true, then I can see the next step being woke politicians, companies, and organizations pressuring the banks to deny credit for all purchases under this new code. This would hurt many small gun businesses without endangering the income the card companies and banks receive from the large department and sporting goods stores. Not a total victory, but another meaningful step toward their goal.
Click to expand...
Is that scenario possible? Of course it is but even those small LGSs pay out about 3% per month to the CCs. While not a huge amount compared to the big box stores is still adds up to a substantial amount combined. The CCs don't want to lose that income stream, money talks, BS walks. The code standardization group is international and non binding in any way. The CCs can use those codes or not, it's up to them and the same with the merchants. Yes the CCs can deny sales if the wrong code is used by a merchant but don't because all of it is voluntary. Heck the codes are primarily used for tier based cash back cards, that's why they were introduced. Also the new code is still generic so one could be buying, ammo, guns, exercise equipment, sports equipment, etc and the CCs have no clue what is being bought.
All that said I did read that some anti-gunners now want to put teeth in the code enforcement but how they would do that in a realistic application is beyond me. That would take legislation which would probably be just as hard to pass as any legislation that revamps Wall Street, there's too much money involved. It's my contention that the CCs bowed to pressure to include the new code as a form of fake virtue signaling but have no intention of enforcing it. The anti-gun groups were tossed a bone tied on a string with this one and most haven't figured out that they've been had.
 
William Shakespeare said it best, “Much ado about nothing.”

The TV, print and internet news is getting people spun up for clicks and increased ad buy dollars. Clearly their plan is working on some. I, for one, am not losing sleep over this.

Stay safe.
 
James K2020 said:
Living in CA I can't get too upset because I get tracked regardless. Whether I buy local or on-line I still get plugged into NICS through my driver license and have to be in the system (or they'll put me in it) to buy anything firearms related.
"They" have known me a long time.
Click to expand...

I avoid being in the center of Liberal Radar and took up reloading, casting, and paying with money orders.
 
https://www.trytransparent.com/question/merchant-category-code-mcc/

The concern I have is whether this code is applied to all stores that sell firearms or just those that get the majority of their income from firearms.

The latter would parse Academy and Walmart from the gun shop (although profits for many gunshops come from everything else in the shop) while the former "any gun sales" would completely obscure information.
 
hso said:
https://www.trytransparent.com/question/merchant-category-code-mcc/

The concern I have is whether this code is applied to all stores that sell firearms or just those that get the majority of their income from firearms.

The latter would parse Academy and Walmart from the gun shop (although profits for many gunshops come from everything else in the shop) while the former "any gun sales" would completely obscure information.
Click to expand...

The way the system currently works it'll only apply to "Gun Shops". Sporting Goods stores will still be sporting goods stores and Walmart will still be "Discount" or "Grocery Store". The code is setup when a Merchant applies for an account to process credit card transactions. Classifying every store that sells guns - Walmart, Dicks, Scheels, Cabelas, Bass Pro, etc. would be pointless as there would literally be billions in sales every day of the week. Even limiting it to local gun stores will result in an information overload if they try and make any sense of what is being purchased. The new code will be used exclusively to harass small local gun stores.
 
citizenconn said:
If I were a small LGS, I'd start selling
Click to expand...
And, realistically, the average LGS makes more, and more regularly, on accessories sales than on arms and ammo.

The merchant bank accounts to have a card reader have always been a bane to small business. Back in the day, there was a monthly charge on top of the percent charge per transaction. And heaven help you if there was a charge-back. And, a bunch of the promotional cards charged the merchant, at the end of the month--well after the customer left (ask me how I learned to never accept cruise-themed cards . . . )

That was then, and this is now. Sadly, a ton of this is invisible to the merchant or the customer, and hidden off in the cash register software and only the accountant/book keeper sees it, and then, only at the month's end.
 
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