Do you guys clean after one mag through?

JTQ said:

Whenever I see a post from somebody using brake cleaner on their guns, I always think of "putting the cast iron skillet in the dish washer". Sure, you can do it, but why? It just makes your life more difficult.

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The brake cleaner is a degreaser exactly like the avio gasoline. Indeed, I would say that they are the same thing judging by the smell and the color or at least they are the same thing the avio gasoline and the brake cleaner that I use (I recover them and reuse them until they are exhausted in the same bottle).
You don't use to degrease your guns after spraying the oil to dissolve gunpowder residues and after first removing most of it with cotton rags? How do you clean areas that are not normally accessible? For example, have you ever seen how much crap keeps coming out of the firing pin channel if you spray inside it with the brake cleaner even after you thought you already had cleaned it perfectly. How do you degrease the inside of the barrel and the chamber after you have sprayed the oil that was used to dissolve the powder residues and after you have cleaned it with the brush?
I don't think oil is enough to clean a gun since the oil mixed with the dirt it has dissolved has to be removed. I assure you that the brake cleaner is also able to put out things that you would never have imagined were inside the recesses of your pistol, especially particles of unburned dust, specks of brass coming from the rubbing of the ramp against the case and other things.
In short, I am of the opinion that, before lubricating the weapon again after cleaning it, it must first be degreased and dried, otherwise you are lubricating where there is still dirty oil, I can guarantee it.
To degrease the gun I used to use the avio gasoline taken from its bottle but since someone recommended me to use the brake cleaner I have never looked back: much more practical and effective than the avio gasoline due to the powerful and precise jet. Then, it's not like it takes a gallon: just a few short sprays in the right places. Personally I also make sure to recover the liquid and use it to degrease other things.
I don't know which brake cleaner you are referring to to criticize the product and who uses it to clean guns. What I use is a normal C6-C7 hydrocarbon brake cleaner (avio gasoline is C6) that does not attack either the polymer of the pistols or the grips. Try it and you will never look back.

The only reason I'd use a degreaser would be to make it possible for something to stick to the gun, such as sight paint, or if I had some absolutely awful lube of some sort and I had to get it all off before starting with something better. I haven't had to do either, yet, so I've never used a degreaser on my guns.

If I need an aerosol to get into hard to reach spaces, I'd choose a CLP like Ballistol or BreakFree or perhaps a silicone spray.

I spend some time, effort, and money to put lube on my gun. I don't see a reason to strip it all off.

My PT1911, which i shoot exclusivly lead, gets slugish when the rails get coated with lube and start binding. Wipe with a Q tip and lube.

JTQ said:

The only reason I'd use a degreaser would be to make it possible for something to stick to the gun, such as sight paint, or if I had some absolutely awful lube of some sort and I had to get it all off before starting with something better. I haven't had to do either, yet, so I've never used a degreaser on my guns.

If I need an aerosol to get into hard to reach spaces, I'd choose a CLP like Ballistol or BreakFree or perhaps a silicone spray.

I spend some time, effort, and money to put lube on my gun. I don't see a reason to strip it all off.

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I use german Sonax MoS2Oil to clean, lube and preserve my pistols. It is much better than Ballistol in every aspect. I still degrease it with german Forch R510 brake cleaner or Avio gasoline (€2 for a bottle of 375ml). All pretty quality stuff.
Forch R510 brake cleaner is not an aerosol spray: it simply spray the liquid which again is a simple C6-C7 hydrocarbon.

If we really want to talk about lubricants, a famous Italian shotguns manufacturer I don't want to name, who is one of the finest shotguns manufacturers in the world, recommends the use of a simple SAE40 synthetic engine oil to lubricate his shotguns claiming that the gun oils that they usually sell to us are useless as they evaporate after a short time. Another great oil for lubricating guns is the simple mixing synthetic oil for 2T engines. So before you spend your money unnecessarily on expensive lubricants, it's best to talk to people in the industry who have no interest in selling us anything in particular. Unfortunately I still have many gun oils that I bought attracted by the siren song but when I run out of them I will buy a bottle of SAE40 and call it a day.

5-SHOTS said:

All pretty quality stuff.

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I'm not arguing that it isn't. If I had brakes to clean or needed to get lube off anything, I'm sure I'd use it, but, in general, I don't have a need to get all the lube off my gun, just the debris.

However, if you want to use brake cleaner or jet fuel to clean your guns, that's OK by me. It's just not a technique I use.

If it's my carry guns, yes. And hopefully, I'll need ONLY one mag to see that I remain current. I simply shoot til I'm satisfied that it's still the gun for me. Sometimes that's only 3 rounds, which really saves on expen$ive defense ammo. But I'll clean it even then. My range toys, however are a different story. I just cleaned my Steel Challenge guns last week after probably two months, which equates to approximately 16 range visits.

I clean after every trip to the range regardless. Never have been without shooting more than one mag. But at the end of the day it gets cleaned and oil.

For me,different guns need different cleaning techniques and intervals.My carry guns get wiped down when I take them off for the night.My work is sometimes dirty and dusty and I keep that in mind so that if I think I've been in a lot of dirt,I'll field strip and clean as needed.Hunting guns get about the same treatment,if they've been in bad weather,they get what I feel they need.I use brake cleaner on some components,but have cut way back on that since I bought a small air compressor for in the gun room.I have a few pistols that I call nice guns,and they get cleaned after every use,but I don't use them a lot.Rimfire guns get a lot more crud from the ammo than centerfires do,and I'll keep an eye on them,sometimes cleaning and lubing the action but not cleaning the bore.One thing I do watch out for,especially on blued finishes is handling them with something on my hands.I used to load my neighbor's boys a couple of my deer rifles because they didn't have much and I wanted to see those boys get a chance to hunt.Every time I got the guns back,they would have rust on them.I thought it was something in their chemical makeup until I realized they were constantly eating salty snacks like potato chips.I'm more likely to clean my hands before handling a firearm than I am after.

5-SHOTS said:

The brake cleaner is a degreaser exactly like the avio gasoline. Indeed, I would say that they are the same thing judging by the smell and the color or at least they are the same thing the avio gasoline and the brake cleaner that I use (I recover them and reuse them until they are exhausted in the same bottle).
You don't use to degrease your guns after spraying the oil to dissolve gunpowder residues and after first removing most of it with cotton rags? How do you clean areas that are not normally accessible? For example, have you ever seen how much crap keeps coming out of the firing pin channel if you spray inside it with the brake cleaner even after you thought you already had cleaned it perfectly. How do you degrease the inside of the barrel and the chamber after you have sprayed the oil that was used to dissolve the powder residues and after you have cleaned it with the brush?
I don't think oil is enough to clean a gun since the oil mixed with the dirt it has dissolved has to be removed. I assure you that the brake cleaner is also able to put out things that you would never have imagined were inside the recesses of your pistol, especially particles of unburned dust, specks of brass coming from the rubbing of the ramp against the case and other things.
In short, I am of the opinion that, before lubricating the weapon again after cleaning it, it must first be degreased and dried, otherwise you are lubricating where there is still dirty oil, I can guarantee it.
To degrease the gun I used to use the avio gasoline taken from its bottle but since someone recommended me to use the brake cleaner I have never looked back: much more practical and effective than the avio gasoline due to the powerful and precise jet. Then, it's not like it takes a gallon: just a few short sprays in the right places. Personally I also make sure to recover the liquid and use it to degrease other things.
I don't know which brake cleaner you are referring to to criticize the product and who uses it to clean guns. What I use is a normal C6-C7 hydrocarbon brake cleaner (avio gasoline is C6) that does not attack either the polymer of the pistols or the grips. Try it and you will never look back.

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You do know avgas has lead in it, and in general lead is not a good thing in the human body.

Personally hard pass.

At one time we washed parts in gas and diesel, over the years we learned that is not really a good idea.

If I can't afford the correct cleaners I need to find a new hobby.

And so you know all brake clean are not equal....some are pretty hard on plastics.

5-SHOTS said:

...a famous Italian shotguns manufacturer......recommends the use of a simple SAE40 synthetic engine oil to lubricate his shotguns claiming that the gun oils that they usually sell to us are useless as they evaporate after a short time.....

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Synthetic engine oils contain detergents and might be useful to clean your gun. However, for lubrication and corrosion protection you are better off using a synthetic lubricant WITHOUT the detergents, such as synthetic gear oil or synthetic automatic transmission fluid. I use Mil-Comm TW25B synthetic grease or Mil-Comm MC2500 synthetic oil for gun lubrication. The Mil-Comm lubes don't stink as badly as the synthetics that I use for my automobile and bicycle. While synthetic lubes do lubricate better than petroleum oil, I mainly synthetics it because they don't thicken up as badly in subzero Minnesota weather.

5-SHOTS said:

I don't think oil is enough to clean a gun since the oil mixed with the dirt it has dissolved has to be removed.

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It's not perfect, but applying oil and then wiping it off will will remove most of the contaminants.

For those using brake cleaner, I wouldn't recommend indiscriminately spraying it on an assembled gun, especially around the striker channel or striker safety. I would reserve brake cleaner or other solvents for cleaning parts after disassembly.

The P220 gets cleaned every 50 or so rounds. Its always wiped down.
Was the home defense one, until the wife bought her 357 mag.
Now the autoloader is a safe queen.

JTQ said:

I'm not arguing that it isn't. If I had brakes to clean or needed to get lube off anything, I'm sure I'd use it, but, in general, I don't have a need to get all the lube off my gun, just the debris.

However, if you want to use brake cleaner or jet fuel to clean your guns, that's OK by me. It's just not a technique I use.

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Remington1911 said:

You do know avgas has lead in it, and in general lead is not a good thing in the human body.

Personally hard pass.

At one time we washed parts in gas and diesel, over the years we learned that is not really a good idea.

If I can't afford the correct cleaners I need to find a new hobby.

And so you know all brake clean are not equal....some are pretty hard on plastics.

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Alllen Bundy said:

Synthetic engine oils contain detergents and might be useful to clean your gun. However, for lubrication and corrosion protection you are better off using a synthetic lubricant WITHOUT the detergents, such as synthetic gear oil or synthetic automatic transmission fluid. I use Mil-Comm TW25B synthetic grease or Mil-Comm MC2500 synthetic oil for gun lubrication. The Mil-Comm lubes don't stink as badly as the synthetics that I use for my automobile and bicycle. While synthetic lubes do lubricate better than petroleum oil, I mainly synthetics it because they don't thicken up as badly in subzero Minnesota weather.



It's not perfect, but applying oil and then wiping it off will will remove most of the contaminants.

For those using brake cleaner, I wouldn't recommend indiscriminately spraying it on an assembled gun, especially around the striker channel or striker safety. I would reserve brake cleaner or other solvents for cleaning parts after disassembly.

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After a few shots the oil with which we lubricated the pistol is already dirty. So I don't understand how you can say to clean a pistol without removing that dirty oil and re-lubricate it with clean oil. All the more so, after firing a few hundred rounds.
Recall that in this discussion we are talking about cleaning pistols. In pistols, little oil is used and in specific points. Little oil to put, little oil to remove.
For how I brefly clean my pistols after every range trip (without using brake cleaner or avio gasoline), after three or four range trips and some hundred rounds what needs to be really cleaned in depth is the breech face and the barrel. I repeat: after having sprayed the oil inside the barrel and cleaned it, how do you carry out the final degreasing? After you spray the oil in the breech face to dissolve the gunpowder residues and after cleaning it, how you finally degrease it and how you remove the oil from the firing pin channel that should have penetrated inside since not all firing pins are easily removable? I never said that I indiscriminately spray the pistol with the brake cleaner. The brake cleaner is used with very short (less than 2 seconds), precise and targeted sprays. Do you know how much brake cleaner I use to degrease one of my pistols in the necessary points? Probably around 3cc total.
I do not know in the USA but in Europe these substances no longer contain lead as it has been banned for years. They are not products for engines but specific degreasers for civil use. As for the firing pin safety and the firing pin channel, I do not see why the brake cleaner should not be used: it is precisely in these inaccessible areas that the brake cleaner shines, perfectly cleaning from oil and other particles in areas that must be bone dry and clean. Finally, the products I use do not attack the plastics of the pistols at all and are pretty expensive too so, yes, I can afford the right cleaners for my hobby.

5-SHOTS said:

So I don't understand how you can say to clean a pistol without removing that dirty oil and re-lubricate it with clean oil. All the more so, after firing a few hundred rounds.

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The crud is suspended in the lubricant. Wipe off the crud with a cloth/patch/paper towel (see the link in post #23). This will take off the crud, but you'll still have residual lube on the gun. There is no need to strip all the remaining lube off the gun since the crud is already off.

You can use a degreaser if you want. As I mentioned earlier, it's like putting a cast iron fry pan in the dishwasher. You can do it, but you're making your job harder than it has to be.

You spend a lot of time and effort getting your cast iron pan to the point where it is basically a non-stick pan, and you can just wipe it clean with a paper towel. As soon as you run it through the dishwasher (equivalent of using a degreaser on your gun), you've stripped all the oil off it, and it isn't non-stick anymore, and now you have to go through the process of getting back to where it was before you stripped all the oil off it.

When cleaning and lubricating your gun, the more you use a CLP the better it works. You use a degreaser and now you're back to ground zero. I just don't do that, and cleaning gets easier every time.

I'm not telling you that you have to do it the way I do it, you can do whatever you want. I'm just not going to use a degreaser on my gun unless I want to get something to stick to it, and powder residue is one thing I don't want stuck on my gun, so I won't use a degreaser.

5-SHOTS said:

I repeat: after having sprayed the oil inside the barrel and cleaned it, how do you carry out the final degreasing?

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You see you're talking about two different things

...after having sprayed the oil inside the barrel and cleaned it...

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Yes, I've now cleaned it. It is clean.

...how do you carry out the final degreasing?

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I don't, because I don't want the gun degreased. I want lube on the gun. It is not a set of brakes where you don't want any lube on them because brakes won't work well with lube on them. Unlike brakes, I want lube on the gun, the gun works better with lube. I have no desire to remove the lube from my gun, because I have no need to do that.

JTQ said:

The crud is suspended in the lubricant. Wipe off the crud with a cloth/patch/paper towel (see the link in post #23). This will take off the crud, but you'll still have residual lube on the gun. There is no need to strip all the remaining lube off the gun since the crud is already off.

You can use a degreaser if you want. As I mentioned earlier, it's like putting a cast iron fry pan in the dishwasher. You can do it, but you're making your job harder than it has to be.

You spend a lot of time and effort getting your cast iron pan to the point where it is basically a non-stick pan, and you can just wipe it clean with a paper towel. As soon as you run it through the dishwasher (equivalent of using a degreaser on your gun), you've stripped all the oil off it, and it isn't non-stick anymore, and now you have to go through the process of getting back to where it was before you stripped all the oil off it.

When cleaning and lubricating your gun, the more you use a CLP the better it works. You use a degreaser and now you're back to ground zero. I just don't do that, and cleaning gets easier every time.

I'm not telling you that you have to do it the way I do it, you can do whatever you want. I'm just not going to use a degreaser on my gun unless I want to get something to stick to it, and powder residue is one thing I don't want stuck on my gun, so I won't use a degreaser.

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I fully understand your point of view. You hit the spot perfectly: after firing a few hundred shots, I prefer to start from ground zero. Perhaps, as you say, it is an exaggerated and useless effort compared to the benefit but I prefer it that way. Maybe that's why my pistols always look like they just come out of the gun shop. If, on the other hand, you saw my car next to my pistols, you would never think they belong to the same person.

On a semi-auto I generally just clean the barrel and what I can reach in the ejection port. Not going to field strip unless a lot more rounds have been fired.

JTQ said:

You see you're talking about two different things

Yes, I've now cleaned it. It is clean.


I don't, because I don't want the gun degreased. I want lube on the gun. It is not a set of brakes where you don't want any lube on them because brakes won't work well with lube on them. Unlike brakes, I want lube on the gun, the gun works better with lube. I have no desire to remove the lube from my gun, because I have no need to do that.

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No, it is not clean. Try to pass a cotton gun brush inside the barrel and see if it comes out clean and if the barrel is degreased. Before shooting, the barrel must be degreased. Then take some cotton ear sticks and pass them inside the pistol where you believe the pistol is clean and you will see them magically turn black.
For me, passing some clotes inside the pistol to remove the dirty oil is only the initial phase of the cleaning.

Please, see my last thread: https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/my-sig-sauer-p226-al-so-alot-of-pics.910809/
The pics are taken after a 100 rounds range trip and with the internals brefly cleaned with clothes. For you the pistol is cleaned, for me it is not. It is only ready for the next range trip, of course only after a new lubrication in the friction points with fresh oil.

Remington1911 said:

You do know avgas has lead in it, and in general lead is not a good thing in the human body.

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That's no where near as common as it once was, much as it's no longer common to see 115 octane at the airport (it's mostly 105 now).
The (few) folks still flying radials will be using additives to sustain their valves.

Also, he is responding from Italy, and it's my understanding the aviation fuels are all lead free over there in Europe (but could be wrong--I only know a couple people in European General Aviation, and they don't generally fly to Italy).

Now, in the US, some marine gasoline can be found, but often under restricted sale.

5-SHOTS said:

...comes out clean and if the barrel is degreased.

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Still two different things, one is clean and the other is degreased, but I'll leave it there.

5-SHOTS said:

Please, see my last thread: https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/my-sig-sauer-p226-al-so-alot-of-pics.910809/

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I commented over there. I'll skip out of this debate here since it has veered off the OP's question. Whatever works for you is what works for you.

CapnMac said:

That's no where near as common as it once was, much as it's no longer common to see 115 octane at the airport (it's mostly 105 now).
The (few) folks still flying radials will be using additives to sustain their valves.

Also, he is responding from Italy, and it's my understanding the aviation fuels are all lead free over there in Europe (but could be wrong--I only know a couple people in European General Aviation, and they don't generally fly to Italy).

Now, in the US, some marine gasoline can be found, but often under restricted sale.

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As I said, the degreaser I use, called Avio, is made from C6 gasoline. It is a perfectly transparent liquid indistinguishable at first sight from water. It is a product sold in 375ml bottles that can be purchased freely in any supermarket or general household items shop. The brake cleaner I use consists of C6 and C7 gasoline and is usually found in shops that sell car care products. They do not contain lead although obviously they are products that it is better not to touch and not to inhale and in fact I use nitrile gloves and a high level protective mask when I use them.

5-SHOTS said:

After you spray the oil in the breech face to dissolve the gunpowder residues and after cleaning it, how you finally degrease it and how you remove the oil from the firing pin channel that should have penetrated inside since not all firing pins are easily removable

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I would NEVER spray anything onto the breechface while the striker was still installed. I might apply a degreaser to a Q-Tip and then clean the breechface with the Q-Tip, carefully avoiding the firing pin hole, and then apply a very thin layer of synthetic grease. Thinking about this, I should probably find a plastic rod that I can jam into the firing pin hole to seal it while I clean it. I mostly use synthetic grease in my pistol, which is less likely to migrate into the striker channel. If it is difficult to access the firing pin and/or striker to remove it to clean it, I would say that is one reason to NOT chose that gun.

Getting a bit of lube into the firing pin/striker channel is probably not a big problem if you clean the striker channel often. I think people are mostly worried about the lube collecting gunpowder residue and clogging up. One of these days I am going to actually LUBE the striker channel with synthetic grease and see if will still fire an empty shell case with a live primer. I'm betting that it will still fire.

5-SHOTS said:

....after having sprayed the oil inside the barrel and cleaned it, how do you carry out the final degreasing?

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With a removable barrel you can hose it down with brake cleaner, bore cleaner, etc., and then lubricate it and wipe off the excess lube, no problem. It doesn't need to be degreased. You mainly want a very thin layer of lubricant left in the barrel to protect against corrosion. But even if you only use oil the clean the bore, it will remove the vast majority of the contaminants. Oil and wipe the inside of the barrel a few times and it will clean a lightly used barrel. But with a heavily soiled barrel I'd still want to use bore cleaner first.

Some areas, like the pivoting extractor, I will disassemble, clean, and relubricate with synthetic grease on a schedule, but NOT add lubrication between cleanings. Adding lubricant or using a degreaser can introduce contaminants inside the bearing areas of the extractor. If for some reason it was obvious that the extractor needed cleaning and I did not have the time or my tools to disassemble it, I would flood it with synthetic oil and work the extractor until no crud appeared to come out and then wipe off the excess. Then later at my convenience, I would disassemble the extractor, degrease, relube, and install a NEW coiled spring pin.

trackskippy said:

I clean my 22's the same as anything else, and have never had an issue with accuracy because of it. Shot a lot of small bore rifle competition in HS too and did OK.

I believe it should be, as its a dual purpose thing. Cleaning/maintenance and inspection.

I never understood why people wont clean their guns, especially those they are going to sell, but hey, that works for me, as I low ball those people every time, assuming Im even willing to buy it. Been burned a couple of times there too, and Im not as quick to jump on things as I was in the past. If I do, you're getting a low ball offer, simply because I consider it abuse, and you dont take care of things, so why should I pay for that.

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I have a couple of old .22 RF rifles and pistols ,pistols don't seem to make a huge difference but that 1934 NRA Target master rifle required #168 shots to re-foul the bore so as to shoot with any consistency . I may have cleaned My 10/22 a dozen times in #55 years ,it's NEVER failed to fire eject or go into battery . The ONLY thing which has happened to it ,was the Mag release lever Broke ,so I replaced it and it functions perfectly ,I wouldn't call it a tack driver but it shoots reasonably well for what it is .

MY little .17 Mach2 shoots Hornady and Eley ammo super well , like dime groups at 50 yd. and under but despises CCi ammo .

The Best .22 RF ammo I've ever shot was some Olympic Lapua and SK along with Wolf Match Extra ,which was made by same SK back in the day . Eley tennX is just to costly IMO and didn't do any better than SK in both MY Rifles . As I also have a 70's vintage Anschutz 54 it loves SK & Lapua but hardly comparable to MY other .22's !.

I like shooting this one, but I so dislike cleaning it!

I lube mine as needed, clean every 500-1000 rounds .... Never had a problem.

A lot of people won't shoot often enough because they don't want to spend the time cleaning their weapon. I shoot every chance I get.