Remember the brouhaha about new merchant codes for firearms purchases?

toivo said:

Let me start by saying that this is purely hypothetical -- I have no reason to believe that what I'm about to describe is actually happening. But it's what could happen, and what a lot of people would like to see happen.

Let's say I'm a non-smoker but my partner is a smoker. Let's say she asks me to pick her up a pack of cigarettes every time I stop at the gas station. Let's say I use my credit card to buy these cigarettes. Now imagine that the purchases were coded and my health insurance provider had access to my purchase information. Would they raise my premiums? I'm sure they'd love to if they could.

Extrapolate that to all kinds of other purchases: alcohol, prescription medications, guns ... Imagine all the things that various entities could do with the information in order to advance their various agendas.

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Imagine if they had cameras too! They could posts video of you buying that stuff! OMG OMG.

dogtown tom said:

You would have been in a real tizzy thirty years ago when any jackleg with a phone book knew where you lived.

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-Thirty years ago, I was in four different states and seven different addresses.
I have never been in any phone books.
-And none of my guns have been registered - so far,,, ,

Do LE have access to this data now? Can it be used as probable cause, or do LE need a warrant to get this information?

trackskippy said:

Until it does.

And in case you hadnt noticed, the government has been infringing on the 2A pretty heavily since 1934, and its only gotten worse.

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Actually I have not yet seen a many instances of infringement. There have been many that I really dislike but none those have been regional and not federal and those seem to be adjudicated in the courts.

Officers'Wife said:

One the wall of Dad's study is an enlarged block of writing from a letter Earl Langrebe (Indiana state representative) sent my Grandfather. The passage reads- The state of Indiana will never use seatbelt violations as cause for a traffic stop.

This alone demonstrates the connection as anything the government cannot do at once they will creep up on slowly so the public doesn't notice.

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That simply should what a fool Earl Langrebe was.

toivo said:

Let me start by saying that this is purely hypothetical -- I have no reason to believe that what I'm about to describe is actually happening. But it's what could happen, and what a lot of people would like to see happen.

Let's say I'm a non-smoker but my partner is a smoker. Let's say she asks me to pick her up a pack of cigarettes every time I stop at the gas station. Let's say I use my credit card to buy these cigarettes. Now imagine that the purchases were coded and my health insurance provider had access to my purchase information. Would they raise my premiums? I'm sure they'd love to if they could.

Extrapolate that to all kinds of other purchases: alcohol, prescription medications, guns ... Imagine all the things that various entities could do with the information in order to advance their various agendas.

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We can make up all kids of scenarios but they are all simply fantasy. The reality is that there is nothing wrong with firearms being treated like groceries.

dogtown tom said:

You would have been in a real tizzy thirty years ago when any jackleg with a phone book knew where you lived.

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Actually, 30 years ago, I had an unlisted number and my name was never in the phone book, and I had a PO Box without a physical address attached to it.

These days, its everywhere and immediately available on the map that comes up when you punch my name in your computer.

I'll take 30 years ago in a heartbeat when it comes to that.

Well, that, and cheap machine guns, ammo, and a few other things.

Glockpride said:

If YOU don’t see how this can and will be used against you at this point in time, then we can’t help you. I guess ignorance is bliss.

Enjoy your train car ride.

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Once again, call your financial institution and ask for an itemized receipt

All it takes are some well-connected activists or politicians leaning on the right bureaucrat at the financial institution and the data about who has bought what, when could be available for all sorts of purposes. And I don’t honestly care if it’s firearms, suppositories, or chocolate milk, a corporation, still less the government, has no business knowing what it is I am spending my money on. Except that unlike suppositories and milk, there’s a vocal 25% of the population with support in the highest places who absolutely cares about my firearms or related purchases and would like to dispossess me of them.

We simply didn’t have to be concerned about these things in the “old days” because, before computers made it possible, obtaining, retaining, and indexing such information on any kind of scale would have been unthinkable. Now, it’s not just theoretically possible, it’s rather easy. This is why it’s very important to fight back against such encroachments, even though in practice, right now, there are no real-world consequences.

jar said:

That simply should what a fool Earl Langrebe was.

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jar said:

We can make up all kids of scenarios but they are all simply fantasy. The reality is that there is nothing wrong with firearms being treated like groceries.

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Ha ha

So, Langrebe is a fool for NOT seeing that power could change and a law be abused
But, you are believing the same thing.


Our company insurance asks every year about alcohol and tobacco use. A tobacco users PAYS $70 / month premium per user for their insurance.
The exact scenario, husband (non-smoker) buys wife smokes, at convenience store. Company nurse, a hated Karen trying to move up, sees him and files letter to company.
Took him several months to get his insurance straight. Almost got terminated for confronting Karen.
She quit, a few months later, stating hostile environment and rude work force.

NOW, there are no firearm infringements, but the data being available CAN / WILL lead to misuse. Goobermint is not known for reduction of power and allowing more freedom.

No, I think Langrebe is a total fool for ever even considering not requiring people to wear seat belt.

In addition your example has no relation what so ever to government regulations. It is simply company policy and a great example of capitalism at work.

jar said:

No, I think Langrebe is a total fool for ever even considering not requiring people to wear seat belt.

In addition your example has no relation what so ever to government regulations. It is simply company policy and a great example of capitalism at work.

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Till your health insurance finds out you have firearms and charges you an additional $70 monthly premium for the privilege, since it’s now well-established that firearms in the home constitute a public health emergency. And how might they find out that you have guns? Well, they’re treated just like groceries now, and that privately-held data can be sold. A great example of capitalism at work.

tarosean said:

Once again, call your financial institution and ask for an itemized receipt

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I guess being an Aggie has made you slow. (Easy pickings here, sorry ). The Patriot Act and several others give the fed gov the power to review your finances at any time for nearly any reason. You order something online? That’s automatically traceable. Your preferred online retailer obviously keeps records of items purchased so that they can send you the right things. You don’t think that the fed gov has the power AND ability to obtain those records? I guess I really can’t help you beyond this…keep being a great, obedient citizen, comrade….

If you really, really want to know how this scheme works without warrants and how the intelligence is gathered, go research “Five Eyes”. Then get back to us how no one in America has anything to worry about.

old lady new shooter said:

That's because "education" is now indoctrination.

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Horsehockey.


Thread gets dumber and dumberer.

Mmmm, education was certainly indoctrination when my kids were going through the public schools in the 90's/2000's, and I havent seen anything showing its stopped. And its certainly not stopped in colleges.

What seems to be a common thing anymore though is, they seem to be educating a lot people beyond their intelligence, especially in the colleges.

Mosin77 said:

Till your health insurance finds out you have firearms and charges you an additional $70 monthly premium for the privilege, since it’s now well-established that firearms in the home constitute a public health emergency. And how might they find out that you have guns? Well, they’re treated just like groceries now, and that privately-held data can be sold. A great example of capitalism at work.

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Again, that has absolutely nothing to do with government regulation and is simply another great example of capitalism in action.

jar said:

Sorry but nothing in the issue of collecting data on commodities infringes in anyway on the 2A.

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You're right, it's not an infringement...yet.

However, knowing that our current government doesn't like us owning guns, especially "high capacity assault weapons", can you see where that data would lead?

The important thing is to stop the collection of that data BEFORE it gets to the extreme of infringement.

LocoGringo said:

You're right, it's not an infringement...yet.

However, knowing that our current government doesn't like us owning guns, especially "high capacity assault weapons", can you see where that data would lead?

The important thing is to stop the collection of that data BEFORE it gets to the extreme of infringement.

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No, I cannot see that leading to any government infringement. Remember, the 2A does not say you should be able to own any firearm you want.

I was an old Fudd gun owner back when the first magazine cap was enacted and quite honestly, it really really really had absolutely no adverse impact on my pistol ownership or purchases. If the limit is ten rounds and I want to carry more than ten rounds then I just carry a second magazine.

jar said:

No, I cannot see that leading to any government infringement. Remember, the 2A does not say you should be able to own any firearm you want.

I was an old Fudd gun owner back when the first magazine cap was enacted and quite honestly, it really really really had absolutely no adverse impact on my pistol ownership or purchases. If the limit is ten rounds and I want to carry more than ten rounds then I just carry a second magazine.

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The 2A doesnt say you cant either, the government is limiting you there.

If you were to follow along logically, we would all have an M4 in out houses to be a properly prepared militia, but again, the government is violating the amendment by limiting us there, and using a tax to do it.

trackskippy said:

Mmmm, education was certainly indoctrination when my kids were going through the public schools in the 90's/2000's.....

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And you let that happen? You let the schools brainwash your children in the seven hours they sat in class?

What the heck were you doing with your kids the other fourteen hours a day they weren't in school?
Why the heck did you continue to send them to get indoctrinated?
How often did you speak to your school board?

I'm guessing it wasn't a big deal because it wasn't indoctrination in the least.

"Well Regulated"

Having the best available

2A says I can have what I want

The bump stock ban did not effect me. I didn't have one or want one. I think they are a stupid waste. But, I support those who have one. Since 1934, it has been 'just one more thing.' Goobermint is never satisfied and must be controlled or become the controller.


My kids were in school 80s and 90s.
Correction, they were schooled. Pulled out of public indoctrination and schooled at home.

dogtown tom said:

And you let that happen? You let the schools brainwash your children in the seven hours they sat in class?

What the heck were you doing with your kids the other fourteen hours a day they weren't in school?
Why the heck did you continue to send them to get indoctrinated?
How often did you speak to your school board?

I'm guessing it wasn't a big deal because it wasn't indoctrination in the least.

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I never said I allowed them to be brainwashed.

It was indoctrination and they had to be basically debriefed every day when they got home. You know, just another, do your job as a parent sort of thing.

And for those other 14 hours a day, they got to be kids, and go out and play, learn cool things that they were prohibited to discuss in school, you know, things like thinking for yourself, shooting and hunting, learning how to defend themselves was another, that sort of thing, and do all those things that got them in trouble at school, when they were grilled for what was going on at home.

I spoke with school officials on a pretty regular basis too, and I wasnt the only one.
And because of it, we were "those people" too, the ones who didnt want to do as they are told and just shut up, do as your told, and follow their rules.

And not being rich, we werent sending them to private school, which have their own indoctrination problems as well.

So what was or is your expereince where they arent being indoctrinated?

trackskippy said:

I never said I allowed them to be brainwashed.

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Yet thats what indoctrination is.
INDOCTRINATE to teach (someone) to fully accept the ideas, opinions, and beliefs of a particular group and to not consider other ideas, opinions, and beliefs.

So what was or is your expereince where they arent being indoctrinated?

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Me:
1st-12th grade in public school (1963-75). Arkansas. Public schools so underfunded the saying was "Thank God for Mississipi" because we were 49th in school funding.
BA and Masters from a small, very conservative Baptist university with a liberal political science department that demanded we learn to think critically. Dissent was welcomed.
Same college and political science department that indoctrinated Mike Huckabee (one year ahead of me) and Sarah Huckabee. Both well known liberal Democrats.

Never once did it seem that I was being brainwashed, force fed, proselytized or reeducated.

Since graduation I've taught and coached in Arkansas, Louisiana and Texas. Both public and private church sponsored. For the last nineteen in Plano ISD. Not one bit of of the curriculum at any of those allowed for one sided discussion.....and thats what indoctrination is. Simply saying ""education" is now indoctrination" is ignorant and untruthful, not to mention just flat out dumb.

People in Texas love to get riled up about our public school curriculum, yet forget our State Board of Education has been overwhelmingly conservative for almost forty years. So yeah, if you are in Texas and don't like whats being taught.....remember Republicans are to blame.