Why Get a 40-caliber Revolver?

It's a Mech Tech brand carbine in 10 mm. You attach the lower portion of a 1911-A1 to it to make it into a carbine.

It's one hole accurate at 25 yds with jacketed ammunition, not so much with cast lead.
It's really light to carry but I haven't weighed it yet.
 
Tallball said:
Do you have a 40-caliber revolver? How do you like it?
Click to expand...
Not specifically .40, as in .40S&W or 10mm. I have three semiauto's for that. But, I have a few .40+ revolvers, which I like very much and shoot frequently (well, three of them anyway). All in all, I own eight handguns in .40 or larger caliber. I don't own a revolver that chambers a rimless cartridge, don't care to have one.
Top left, a M57 and M58 .41 Magnum Revolver; top right a 10mm 1911, and a .40S&W 1911 Commander and .40S&W BHP. Bottom right, M29-2 .44 Magnum revolver; bottom left, a 1911 .45 Auto and a M25-5 .45 Colt:
.40 + handguns.jpg
 
I had a hankering for a .41 Special many years ago. For those who don't know, .41 Special is a wildcat. Think of reversing the process of making a .357 Magnum from the idea of a .38 Special or a .44 Mag from .44 Special. Except start with .41 Magnum and shorten it.
The problem was (and is moreso now) expense. Not to mention the drawbacks of the N frame being larger and therefore more difficult to carry concealed. And the .41 Magnum can be loaded lighter than magnum pressure.
So I have no objection in getting .40 S&W in a revolver. I do object to moonish clips. I'd prefer a rimmed case - which no one makes. Even as a five shot K frame, that would do quite nicely for self defense. Rats! No one currently makes speed loaders for such a thing, either.
 
Few years after S&W introduced model 610 in 10 mm Auto, several gun writers prized it as one of most, if not the most, accurate revolver S&W made. Also, I know from before about accuracy of their Model 25 in 45 ACP/45 AR. The question is why those two revolvers are so accurate, when basically they are manufactured on same machines, in very similar manufacturing process as other models. Seems to me, apart what we know that short handgun cartridges have a tendency to be accurate, must be something in the way chambers in cylinders are designed and made. Any revolver designed to shoot pistol ammo, like noted 10 MM Auto and 45 ACP, have precisely made chamber so loaded round could sit like in pistol barrel, resting on front side of the case. As a consequence, bullet is well centered prior to firing, an important factor that considerably contributes to accuracy. See SAAMI spec https://saami.org/wp-content/upload...FP-and-R-Approved-2015-12-14-Posting-Copy.pdf .

Regarding revolvers for standard rimmed cartridges, if you check, specsa you will see in cylinders' chambers considerable length of transition cone from cartridge dia to bullet dia:

357 Magnum: 1.3986-1.3019=.0967
41 Magnum: 1.3662-1.3120=.0542
44 Magnum: 1.3734-1.3083=.0651
45 Colt: 1.3978-1.2949=.1029

So, if cylinder chamber is made oversize, sloppy (as in many cases), and bullet in assembled round has no full dia driving band protruding from the case, or it's very short, loaded round will sit on the bottom of the chamber and bullet will be somewhat off the center prior to firing. That condition certainly wouldn't help accuracy.

Now, you could see why E. Keith insisted on bullet front driving band to be long enough. On his latest design H&G #503, he designed front driving band .100" long. In addition, he wanted other two driving bands and grease groove to be same length. It worked very well for so many, for almost a century.

P.S. My appology for somewhat off topic, but I would like to inform younger shooters what was behind certain features on revolvers and ammunition components.
 
I've seen praise for 10mm revolvers being accurate in the past, but that was with someone's handloads. In general the attributes that would make 10mm accurate would likely have more to do with less air gap in the case between the powder and bullet as that seems to have a major impact with shot to shot consistency. One thing the Specials and Magnum cases don't have going for them is their length originating from black powder days not really being all that advantageous with smokeless powders; the major reason magnums were made longer than specials was as a safety device to prevent them from being loaded into the weaker Special chambered revolvers.

So, why is 10mm getting a good rap while 9mm and .45 ACP revolvers have been around even longer? It could be that revolvers prefer shorter, flat nosed bullets vs longer round nose ones in rimless, taper crimped cases. This would mean .40 also would show improved accuracy over 9mm and .45 ACP in a revolver.
 
I have long thought of the 40 S&W as the "38-40 Short, Straight, Rimless". (smile)

Dave

PS: I'd love to have a 3" L-frame 40 S&W 'six-shooter', cut for Moonclips of course.
 
I don't have much use for one. Instead of buying a new guy to take advantage of what may or may not be on the shelves during a shortage, I'd rather just take that money and buy the ammo I'm hoping will be around and put it away for a rainy day.
 
I'm a bit of a collector, so it pleases me to have revolvers that will fire 32acp, 9mm, 40, and 45acp. Yes, I have at least one of each now. :)

This revolver was't really "needed". I just wanted one.

The short, squat 40-caliber rounds seem perfect for moon clips.

I'll be shooting it later this morning. If it shoots pretty close to POA and the recoil is more spicy than a similar 38 or 9mm, it's doing everything I wanted it to do.
 
Tallball said:
I'm a bit of a collector, so it pleases me to have revolvers that will fire 32acp, 9mm, 40, and 45acp. Yes, I have at least one of each now. :)
Click to expand...
This reminds me why I'm such an advocate of a revolver in 10mm Magnum (specifically for one with a rim becaue3 it has advantages) because unlike the .32 and 9mm it will have power in the 10mm Mag, but able to run the shorter, lower recoiling .40 without issues using moon clips and it would be smaller than a .45 revolver.

Yeah, I get that it won't be as powerful as .41 Magnum, but it would be a hella more powerful than .357 Mag in a similar size revolver and have the ability to share ammo with 10mm and .40 S&W chambered semi autos.
 
I was very pleased with the way it shot. Good accuracy for a 2" snub. Pretty good trigger for a Taurus.

Ordered a Wolff spring kit and another five moonclips.

This and my 625 are going to get shot a whole lot. It's very nice, almost like the olden days, to be able to walk into a big-box sporting goods store and easily find affordable ammo for larger caliber revolvers. :)
 
Y'all gotta use moon clips on these .40 caliber revolvers?

Charter Arms has a way to run auto ammo in a revolver without moon clips. But I don't think they make a .40.
 
aaaaa said:
Y'all gotta use moon clips on these .40 caliber revolvers?

Charter Arms has a way to run auto ammo in a revolver without moon clips. But I don't think they make a .40.
Click to expand...
You GET to use moonclips. Moonclips rule! Moonclips are the fastest most fumble free way to reload a revolver fast.

Charter arms does make the Pitbull in 40 S&W and the reason I don't own it, is because it does not use moonclips.
 
I have the Charter Arms in 45acp. It doesn't use moonclips, it has a springy thing in each chamber, instead. The 40 works the same. They're expensive now if you can find one, and not really that fun to shoot (quite a bit lighter than a similar K-frame).

A 9mm or 40 or 45acp single-action revolver doesn't need moonclips, either. The cylinder is bored to accept the rimless cartridges, and they eject one at a time with the ejector rod just like a rimmed cartridge. I think my next purchase will be a SAA 4.8" in 45acp.

The SP101 9mm and S&W 625 (and now the Taurus 405) are made for moonclips, but you can shoot without them if you don't mind poking the empties out. The empties dump out of the Taurus and Smith easily. They're tougher with the SP101, but those moonclips are super easy to use, so I do.

Ruger SP101 9mm

Ruger SP101 9mm

 
I think a .40 cal revolver would be fine. I, with no practical experience using moon clips think that a rapid reload with them would be quite possible.
It seems that if the pistol would also chamber 10mm the advantages much like .357/ 38 spl allows it would be a big selling point.
As I mentioned.....no experience with moon clips .....do the current S&W revolvers require the use of them when firing 10mm?
 
Seems to be a lot of people asking about moon clips and when they're required, so to clear up any confusion I'll do what I can. This is all in reference to DA revolvers.

-Any revolver chambered for a rimless cartridge can shoot that cartridge without moon clips. This would mean the 9mm LCR or Taurus, the 10mm Ruger or S&W, or .45 ACP S&W revolvers can function without moon clips for those calibers.

-While .40 can be used in a 10mm revolver or .45 ACP in a .45 Ruger Redhawk, they cannot be used without moon clips because they're too short and don't headspace.

-AFAIK, the ONLY double action revolvers that are advertised as chambered for a certain rimless caliber that CANNOT be used without a moon clip is the Ruger Redhawk .45 Colt/.45 ACP and the S&W Governor.

-There is a belief that headspacing off the mouth of a rimless case is better for accuracy and reliability than relying on a moon clip for headspacing.

-The accuracy belief is possibly true, the reliability is definitely a concern as the flexibility of the moon clips can cause unreliable ignition of the primer. I've had some issues with .45 ACP going off in my Redhawk, but it's not something I've really put much focus on and don't have the time or primers to put the work into getting to the bottom of the issue. I do feel that aftermarket moon clips that are stiffer (and thus more difficult to push and remove cases from) can help reduce the light strikes, but I have still had issues with light strikes. That could have been the primers or cases I was using too, again, can't say with certainty.

.40 in a 10mm would likely have the same issues. I know Nutnfancy had issues with .40 in a 10mm revolver review he did a year or two ago and don't expect any help from the manufacturer because they don't advertise any of their 10mm revolvers to shoot .40.

So, I feel I should correct my earlier post when I said .40 wouldn't have issues in a 10mm Mag... I forgot about the issues using a moon clip to headspace off of can have.

I do not know if it's something that can be fixed with different clips. It could be the moon clips used today are too thin and bendy compared to what were used back in WW1 with .45 ACP revolvers or it could be an issue with full moon clips being less rigid than the half moon clips that were used back then.

That said, I haven't heard of issues with .45 ACP in the S&W Governors having light strikes, but I know they use both a 2 round and 6 round moon clip.
 
I put over 20,000 rds of 40S&W through a S&W 610 in competition with never an issue with headspacing on the moonclip. S&W has the tolerances figured out. For some reason Ruger has not and their 10mm revolvers have had occasional issues with 40S&W not headspacing correctly on the moonclip.
 
I assumed that I could shoot 40 caliber out of a S&W 610 or a GP101 in 10mm if I always used moonclips.

The problem was that those are out my price range. I wasn't worried about the moonclips working correctly. They're 100% in my 625 - same revolver as the 610, just in a different rimless caliber.

IMHO, so far the 40 seems better for moonclips than the 9mm or 45acp. The rounds are short and fat, which seems ideal.
 
TTv2 said:
Seems to be a lot of people asking about moon clips and when they're required, so to clear up any confusion I'll do what I can. This is all in reference to DA revolvers.

-Any revolver chambered for a rimless cartridge can shoot that cartridge without moon clips. This would mean the 9mm LCR or Taurus, the 10mm Ruger or S&W, or .45 ACP S&W revolvers can function without moon clips for those calibers.

-While .40 can be used in a 10mm revolver or .45 ACP in a .45 Ruger Redhawk, they cannot be used without moon clips because they're too short and don't headspace.

-AFAIK, the ONLY double action revolvers that are advertised as chambered for a certain rimless caliber that CANNOT be used without a moon clip is the Ruger Redhawk .45 Colt/.45 ACP and the S&W Governor.

-There is a belief that headspacing off the mouth of a rimless case is better for accuracy and reliability than relying on a moon clip for headspacing.

-The accuracy belief is possibly true, the reliability is definitely a concern as the flexibility of the moon clips can cause unreliable ignition of the primer. I've had some issues with .45 ACP going off in my Redhawk, but it's not something I've really put much focus on and don't have the time or primers to put the work into getting to the bottom of the issue. I do feel that aftermarket moon clips that are stiffer (and thus more difficult to push and remove cases from) can help reduce the light strikes, but I have still had issues with light strikes. That could have been the primers or cases I was using too, again, can't say with certainty.

.40 in a 10mm would likely have the same issues. I know Nutnfancy had issues with .40 in a 10mm revolver review he did a year or two ago and don't expect any help from the manufacturer because they don't advertise any of their 10mm revolvers to shoot .40.

So, I feel I should correct my earlier post when I said .40 wouldn't have issues in a 10mm Mag... I forgot about the issues using a moon clip to headspace off of can have.

I do not know if it's something that can be fixed with different clips. It could be the moon clips used today are too thin and bendy compared to what were used back in WW1 with .45 ACP revolvers or it could be an issue with full moon clips being less rigid than the half moon clips that were used back then.

That said, I haven't heard of issues with .45 ACP in the S&W Governors having light strikes, but I know they use both a 2 round and 6 round moon clip.
Click to expand...

What about that moonclips "tend to be bulky, turn rounds loose at inopportune times and . . . get bent in ways that can tie up the gun."
"Coming Around Again" by Tamara Keel in Shooting Illustrated Jan 2023
 
aaaaa said:
What about that moonclips "tend to be bulky, turn rounds loose at inopportune times and . . . get bent in ways that can tie up the gun."
"Coming Around Again" by Tamara Keel in Shooting Illustrated Jan 2023
Click to expand...
They are less bulky than speedloaders. They can get bent, I have a bag full that have been bent in competition. I have kicked a few doing moving reloads but more often the get accidently stepped on by someone resetting the stage.

That said if you do a simple check after loading them I have never had a bent one make it into the gun for use.

As for dropping round. I have never had a rimless moonclip drop a round, 40/10 or 45 ACP. Rimmed cartridges are far more finicky about moonclip vs brass pairing for good retention than rimless in my experience. I have one size moonclip for my 610 & 625. I have three different sizes for my 627 and there are several more variation available for brass I don't use.
 
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