Cupro-nickel removal

I read of "hard metal fouling" and some of the aggressive treatments back in the day.
I think now I would just get a brand name copper remover and stay after it.

Sweets is what I use for cu removal. You do not want to get it on bluing. Normally if I have a bore that's requiring it I follow up with some Butches Bore paste to try to smooth it out some.

I have found the Butches Bore Cleaner in a Glass bottle will remove stubborn residue better than any thing else I've tried. This stuff is strong and it's recommended to use in a well ventilated area and keep off your skin.

Sweets, KG 12, Montana.

You have a real problem. I had cupronickel fouling before the internet and I never figured out where to get the components to make Ammonia dope, which is what was being used when cupro nickel bullets were at their peak. Which is before and after WW1. I don’t know the cutoff for cupro nickel bullet jackets. I do know my 303 Iraqi ball ammunition, made in the 50’s or 60’s had cupro nickel bullets. Horrible stuff, left huge lumps in the barrel.

There are several places you can download Hatcher's Notebook for free. One page 333 Hatcher provides a solution which was used before WW1, and after, to dissolve cupro nickel fouling Hatcher calls this “metal fouling solution” or “ammonia dope”

This document provides some more information on ammonia dope:

Improved Rifle Bore Cleaner
https://apps.dtic.mil/sti/pdfs/AD0748807.pdf


Copper fouling can be removed by the use of Ordnance Department Metal Fouling Solution, "Ammonia Dope''. This is a solution of ammonium persulfate, ammonium carbonate, ammonium hydroxide and water. The gun barrel is stoppered and the bore soaked in this solution. There are a number of disadvantages to the use of this cleaner. It corrodes gun metal at the air-liquid interface, consequently the user has to be very careful to make sure the metal is completely covered with the solution and that none leaks into the breech mechanism. The cleaner has to be prepared fresh because old solutions are corrosive to steel. On occasion, even fresh solution will attack the steel and etch it badly enough to ruin the surface (4). This solution is still recommended for use by the U.S. Army (5). Table I contains the formulations of cleaners and copper removing compositions printed in the open 1iterature

TABLE I

Copper Removing Compositions {From the Open Literature)

“ Ammonia Dope”, Standard Ordnance Department Metal Fouling Solution
4 oz water
1 oz ammonium persulfate
200 g ammonium carbonate
60 oz ammonia {28%)

The internet is a wonderful thing. I did find sources for

ammonium persulfate

ammonium carbonate

If you do make ammonia dope, I would appreciate learning how just how it went.

I did learn, greasing bullets positively prevented cupro nickle jacket fouling. Just a dip and a twist.

It was usual to put a piece of rubber tubing on the muzzle so the liquid level was above the barrel. I have chamber plugs with O rings for soaking.

I would not risk it, there are commercial products a lot easier to work with.

Elmer Keith said when at Camp Perry, he left the last empty in the chamber and stoppered the muzzle. He shot all events and did not clean until the last day, to hand in the issued Rifle with a bright bore. Didn't say what he cleaned with but I think it was in the M1 era with cupronickel replaced by gilding metal, so all he had to deal with was chlorate priming.

If the accuracy is good you might want to leave it alone. I have a old Mosin and Mauser that shot fine but decided to scrub the bore clean. Shot like crap and took about 50 rounds each to smooth things back to where they were. I can whack clay pigeons 70% at 100yds so I no more trying to make old milsurp barrels look new again. I've read of many similar experiences. jmo Good luck.

What is it? Some models have wide bore variations that you may have to match the bullet to.

Mr_Flintstone said:

I'm gathering the stuff to make an electrolysis setup to remove any leftover gunk in the bore that the JB and Hoppe's doesn't get. It'll probably be the weekend before I get it set up. After that, I'm sure that the bore will have at least some pitting, so my plan after I get rid of the cupro-nickel is to paper patch some undersize bullets to .001' over bore diameter and run about a hundred through it at reduced velocity. I've heard that paper patched bullets really shine up the bore. After that, I'll just learn to deal with whatever condition it's in.

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I did this about 20 years ago to an M1 I got from the CMP, that was a Danish return. It worked to get the fouling out. The bore was still heavily pitted and I eventually sold the rifle off. I should have had it rebarrelled but I know more now than I did then.

Mr_Flintstone said:

Can somebody help me out with the best (and easiest) way to remove built up cupro-nickel from the bore of a surplus rifle? I have one that has buildup inside the bore, but it probably has some pitting too. Right now I can't really assess what the true damage is because I can't get the buildup out of the bore.

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I use Wipe-Out. You should remove the action from the stock because it can blemish the finish. You will need lots of cleaning patches. Wipe-Out foams and expands and will go from one end of the barrel to the other quickly.

Mr_Flintstone said:

Thanks. That was my original plan for solvent, but I couldn’t find any in stock at the time. I decided to take the simple approach and kept working at it with Pro Shot copper solvent, and was finally able to get it all. It took the better part of a day to get rid of the blue patches though.

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It will probably take a few rounds to shoot the accuracy back into the barrel.